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Thread: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

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    Default KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    I have an urgent problem. When I shut down my machine control system running win 10, it forced an update. I have previously tried to turn the updates off without luck, and was pretty concerned with the possible problems later today. Really unhappy that now KmotionCNC is crashing with a DLL error and unexpected disconnection from kflop. I cannot complete my initialization without crash.

    Has anyone else had problems today, or know already of a solutions?

    I tried re- installing the drivers with no luck.


    Thanks windows' update!

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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Just got the blue screen windows crash while trying to load KmotionCNC. Pretty sure I don't have a hardware problem now.

    I made the mistake of yet again delaying taking my shop network offline yesterday morning (disconnecting from the internet). Such a dumb donkey.



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    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Hi MadTooler,

    Sorry to hear that.

    What DLL Error do you get?

    What Version of KMotion are you running?

    When does the error happen?

    What Version of W10 are you running? (Run winver from a Windows Command Prompt)

    Any Anti-Virus running?

    Is Windows Defender running?

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Further study...

    I am able to run my initialization script shortly after starting KmotionCNC without immediate crash as long as I do not have the servo power on. When I actually power up my servos I get the error "KmotionDLL (Not Responding)... Read Failed - Auto Disconnect." A couple of times now it has gone to the windows blue screen and windows has restarted right after the Kmotion error notice. Otherwise, trying to close the error locks up for a bit then eventually completely closes KmotionCNC. It looks like if I have Kmotion running in the background, it does not close out.

    Additionally, with the Kflop still powered up from the last crash, I can turn off my servo power and then restart KmotionCNC, run the initialization, get feedback from manually moving encoders, but then again crashes as soon as I power up the servos. With this cycle, a different error popped up "Kmotion... Error: Status Record Size mismatch... Disable further status updates?... Yes/No." Similar results with lockup and crash of KmotionCNC.

    I have a Kflop with SnapAmp and Kanalog. DC servos with the encoders connected to the SnapAmp. The encoders do read when I manually turn the screws. As soon as I power them up with my manual switch, the system fails.

    Kmotion & KmotionCNC version: 4.33

    Kflop driver 4.34

    Windows 10 version: 1607 (os build 14393.953)

    AVG antivirus free version: 17.2.3419.0

    Windows Defender not running.

    It was running fine yesterday before the update. Does any of this sound like a new hardware issue?



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    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    I just restarted a W10 64 system and it did install a number of new updates:
    Mainly:
    Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3150513)
    Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB4013418)
    Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB4013429)


    but I haven't yet seen a problem. I don't have a SnapAmp or Motors handy.

    I tested:

    Kmotion & KmotionCNC version: 4.33

    Kflop driver 4.34h

    Windows 10 version: 1607 (os build 14393.953)

    No AntiVirus

    Windows Defender on

    Your error occurring when servo power turns on would tend to point point toward a hardware problem.

    Your original description sounded like a bad, missing, or updated DLL was causing a program crash. But your new description sounds more like the program and software are executing correctly and correctly reporting a problem communicating to KFLOP (but then not handling it very gracefully). That wouldn't explain a blue screen though.

    BTW you should be able to uninstall the updates to eliminate that as a possibility:

    Windows Update - Update History - Uninstall Updates

    Otherwise I would try to troubleshoot and narrow down how applying power is causing KFLOP to reset or crash or not be able to communicate. There might be a broken GND or shield or short? Maybe try disconnecting the power from one side of SnapAmp or the other. Or disconnecting the Motors and re-connecting the Motors one at a time? Note: never make any changes with power on. Can you apply Motor power if SnapAmp hasn't been configured/enabled?

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Thanks Tom.

    Kflop does not appear to be crashing or resetting. It actually keeps the encoder counts/DRO between (KmotionCNC) crashes as well, and does not seem to care about power being sent to snapamp or not. I will check if it keeps running from within kmotion.

    I tried to restore windows, but it was not available due to the priority of the updates. I will see about removing the updates individually.

    I also have a couple of backup win xp systems I can plug in to check if the control is physically functioning properly.

    Thanks for your fast responses. I will let you know what I find out.



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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    And the gross offender is...

    "Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3150513)"

    That dirty dog was the trigger for the problem. It was the last installed, first to try, and repeatably an offender. After uninstalling and reinstalling for testing, it actually would cause my servo power to trip continuously without the dll error, but still was totally jacked. The way I have my system configured is for both logic and manual to be enabled for the servo power contactor to be energized, but I can also override manually ( I knew that option would come in handy at some point ) which allowed for motor commands to function. As soon as I uninstalled the downgrade/update, it worked again.

    Guess who pulled the internet from their machine control network now?

    Thanks Tom. Please let me know if this in some way still indicates I may have an underlying wiring/hardware issue.



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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    After further use, I also found that my AVG antivirus appears to be interfering with KmotionCNC responsiveness. I found hitting any of my buttons, or running mcodes from the prompt, were severely delayed. Even the pause and Estop buttons were extremely lagged. I think even custom mcodes from within my running gcode were lagged, but I need to retest to confirm that one.

    My first thought was some other MS update was the culprit, but after uninstalling back a few months without any results, I excluded all of my Kmotion and CNC file locations from my AVG anitvirus scan and it started working properly again. I am making an assumption the scanner was checking the C programs (probably mostly my customized programs) before they were allowed to run.

    It looks like the dynomotion software has not had an official patch or version release since 12/01/15. Is there any near future update that may make it more Win 10 safe?



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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Unfortunately same problem here; I was able to work for a year with WIndows 10 and kflop+ mach3 but after some windows upgrades, I am not sure wich one as I did'n use cnc for some time, now it is impossible to let windows see the drivers or after following the dynamotion windows 10 installation suggestions it was done but not after the reboot that loose again the seen drivers. Now for working I use a virtual box with windows 7 installed and it is ok but very very annoying. I guest that a patch for windows 10 and kflop is needed as lot of peoples is going to migrate to that OS, or will change soon a computer and.....may be also migrate to mach4, but it is another story



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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    I have found a solution that works great for me , for now. I suspected that something with windows defender was involved, even it was deactivated in control panel. Following suggestions from here

    How to permanently disable Windows Defender on Windows 10 | Windows Central

    adding a voice (DWORD) in registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows Defender

    calling it DisableAntiSpyware and assigning a value of 1, after reboot it was possible to install kflop drivers. Hope that will help but I no assume any responsability in disabiliting the defender on others computer. Looking foward to read some comments and feedback if same solution is good for anyone

    Last edited by pedro1956; 04-29-2017 at 06:24 AM.


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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    Great thread, especially considering I am designing a router with the KFLOP in mind and was going to see about creating a standalone controller with a pocket sized win10 pc and touchscreen.
    Now.
    Is there a way to acrually save topics from within cnczone or tapatalk? 😂
    Also, good luck with any future win10 problems and please, please keep us updated!

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?

    While Win10 in general is much better than Win8, it's single biggest failing (IMO) is the inability to stop the auto-updates. It makes it impossible to count on a stable system. When I first built my dedicate CNC PC, Win8 was the then current system so that what I used. It's pretty much dedicated to the CNC running Kmotion, I have auto-updates turned off and it's only rarely network connected...I'm not too worried about viruses on it. While I would like to have all my various PC's at the same level, as long as Kmotiion runs on Win8, I'll stick with it. Or when MS decides to let their users/customers have more control over their own systems...then I'll consider upgrading.

    rr



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KmotionCNC... Did the windows 10 update kill you?
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