Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit - Page 6


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  1. #101
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    First thing that stands out, is I'd move the E-stop opto input so it's picking up the signal directly at the contactor. The way it currently is, is if the SSR failed for some reason, the opto would still be connected to 0V through the switches and remain active.
    And do you really need the SSR? How much current does the main contactor coil draw?
    The SSR is more protection for Kanalog. The main contactor draws a little over .2 amps.


    The other thing is the Enable inputs to the drives. As it stands, the drives will enable as soon as everything powers up, which will be before the KFlop has initialised the relevant servo loops, so the servos are very likely to drift until the KFlop is initialised.
    Also, do the enables really need connected to 0V to activate? The drives I normally use, the enables need 24V applied.
    Thanks for drawing my attention to this as i should have wired the ENA pin on drives to an Output on Kanalog not input like wire drawing. So Kanalog can toggle the state of pin and Enable/Disable drive. Also the main Contactor will be controlling the servo motor power circuit.
    I attached servo drive manual page of ENA pin, it shows how it can be used.


    FWIW, I normally have the E-stop circuit so the 24V side is being switched. This way, should any wiring faults occur where the wiring gets shorted to GND/0V (which is more likely than being shorted to 24V), the power supply will trip out, which is safer than the E-stop circuit failing to work when you need it.
    Dont totally understand this. If the GND is lost/shorted, wont power supply still trip or lose voltage output?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-enable-disablepin-pdf  
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Updated E Stop loop and ENA pin of drives.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-kanalog-servodrives-estop-schematic-pdf  
    Last edited by Need TECH Help!; 04-29-2017 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Changed Estop to switch +24 instead of GND in schematic
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    Default DMM Tech drive JP4 Pin21 current monitor

    In order for Kanalog SWE output to control relay the 24VDC power supply ground is connected to Kanalog JP6 terminal GND. My servo drives have an output pin for monitoring current output. The pin outputs 0-3.3VDC. This pin and a GND pin from drive needs to be used. Original plan was to use a Kanalog JP6 inputs. But with 24VDC power supply ground wired to JP6, how can i still use servo drive current monitor output pin?

    Attached is diagram from drive manual showing current output circuit, Interface Type 'E' example.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-page17-pdf  
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    Default Re: DMM Tech drive JP4 Pin21 current monitor

    You should be able to do that. I did a similar thing with my spindle drive. Sent load meter signal in through analog inputs, converted it to digital counts, then i scaled those counts in my forever loop to give me a 0-10v range and use one of the analog outputs to output new signal to a cheap voltmeter like this one: Mini voltmeter tester Digital voltage test battery DC 0-30V red auto car LW SZUS | eBay I painted over the decimal and now have a load display of 0-100%. Worked fairly well, but in my case the signal from spindle drive isnt the greatest indicator of load to start with. You could probably use the analog inputs and get a custom screen to display load in kmotioncnc too.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Creating a custom screen to display load in KMotionCNC is what Tom said to do in an earlier post. But now i have my 24vdc power supply ground connected to JP6 GND so i can use the SWE output. The servo drive ground pin will need to be connected to JP6 ground also in order for the current monitor of drive to work.

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Since both are grounded already i would think the signal wire would be all you need. If its isolated or something there are several more ground connectors on JP6.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    If i connect ground from 24vdc power supply and ground from drive's internal signal ground pin at Kanalog's JP6 GNDs, wont there be an issue with noise or a loop of some sort?

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Could be a possibility. Tom or m_c might be able to give you a more reliable answer. But I think you will most likely just need the one signal wire anyway as i mentioned.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Just had a chance to check the manual, and I see the ENA is an opto, so switching the GND is fine.

    I'd hazard a guess the analogue output won't be fully isolated, and the GND will be connected internally to the drives logic GND anyway, so you probably wouldn't need to connect another GND to use the load output. As long as you're sensible with the wiring, the chances of creating a ground loop that will cause problems is pretty slim.

    For my machines running servos, the 24VDC supply 0V is connected to the 5VDC 0V. The drives get a feed direct from the 24VDC and common 0V terminals (10 or so DIN rail terminals linked with bus bars). The KFlop/Kanalog gets a feed from the same 0V terminals, and 5V direct from the PSU (it's the only thing running on 5V, so no need for any extra terminals). The servos get controlled via the Kanalog Opto Outs using standard wire, and the +/-10V use a separate twin core shielded wire.
    With that setup, there are 3 gnd connections at each servo drive. 0V via Kanalog and +/-10V wiring, 0V via the 24V logic 0V, and also via the dedicated PE/earth connection, as there is a solitary wire linking the 0V terminals to the PE/earth start point.

    Main thing is to be sensible with wiring. Don't go routing low current signal wires next to unshielded high current/fast switching wiring. Make sure you've not got any ground loops in power wiring, as that's where ground noise problems are more likely to occur.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Just had a chance to check the manual, and I see the ENA is an opto, so switching the GND is fine.

    I'd hazard a guess the analogue output won't be fully isolated, and the GND will be connected internally to the drives logic GND anyway, so you probably wouldn't need to connect another GND to use the load output. As long as you're sensible with the wiring, the chances of creating a ground loop that will cause problems is pretty slim.

    For my machines running servos, the 24VDC supply 0V is connected to the 5VDC 0V. The drives get a feed direct from the 24VDC and common 0V terminals (10 or so DIN rail terminals linked with bus bars). The KFlop/Kanalog gets a feed from the same 0V terminals, and 5V direct from the PSU (it's the only thing running on 5V, so no need for any extra terminals). The servos get controlled via the Kanalog Opto Outs using standard wire, and the +/-10V use a separate twin core shielded wire.
    With that setup, there are 3 gnd connections at each servo drive. 0V via Kanalog and +/-10V wiring, 0V via the 24V logic 0V, and also via the dedicated PE/earth connection, as there is a solitary wire linking the 0V terminals to the PE/earth start point.

    Main thing is to be sensible with wiring. Don't go routing low current signal wires next to unshielded high current/fast switching wiring. Make sure you've not got any ground loops in power wiring, as that's where ground noise problems are more likely to occur.
    I have been wiring as you described with star grounding.

    Last edited by Need TECH Help!; 05-07-2017 at 04:40 PM.
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  11. #111
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    Default Isolation Transformer output 128V

    Now that i have everything wired up iam double checking my incoming AC voltages. The cabinet 120VAC is coming from an isolation transformer. Input to transformer is 243VAC but secondary output is 128VAC checking across transformer output Neutral and Hot.
    I have a 120VAC breaker going to an outlet in cabinet. When checking voltage at outlet with no load, i get 128VAC across Neutral and Hot and 129VAC when checking from Earth Ground to Hot of outlet. If i plugin a receptacle tester(the kind with the 3 dummy lights.) into outlet and check across Neutral and Hot i get 128VAC if i check outlet from Earth Ground to Hot i get 108 to 109.7 VAC. Is this typical for an isolation transformer? Or do i have something wrong? I would expect the voltage reading to be the same from Ground to Hot.

    Thanks for any info,
    Troy

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    Default Re: Isolation Transformer output 128V

    Did another test at outlet with a DeWalt drill. With drill at full RPM the voltage across neutral and hot measured 126VAC, when checking from ground to Hot, i also got 126VAC.
    Should i connect a buck/boost transformer? What would be the best place for it? On the incoming 240 to isolation transformer or after the isolation transformer?

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    The output from an isolation transformer can float above ground.

    The only way to guarantee neutral matches ground voltage is to connect it to ground, or join the input neutral to output neutral, and in effect create an autowound transformer.



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    Default Re: Isolation Transformer output 128V

    Ok. That makes sense,
    Would the 5-6% above 120VAC be ok? Or ?

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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    I would guess so. I'm UK based, and we only get 240V (or 415V if you happen to have a 3 phase supply), however the mains tolerance is quite large.

    Ultimately it depends on what you're powering with it. Anything electronic I'd expect to work with a good bit higher/lower voltage, but things like servo/stepper driver supplies may have to be checked for maximum allowable voltages, especially anything relying on a basic un-regulated linear power supply, as an input voltage at the high end of the tolerance can quite easily result in the final output voltage being pushed too near or above the maximum voltage for drives.
    One thing to consider, is with any transformer, the voltage will sag under load, and is what the load regulation figure relates to. It's the percentage the voltage will drop between unloaded, and at rated load. A drill free spinning will only be placing a minimal load, so shouldn't cause the voltage to drop much. Something like a big halogen floodlight or heater would be a better test.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    All electronics running off this transformer have a good tolerance.
    I tried a halogen shop light and it dropped the transformer voltage output to 124V.

    On another....crappy note....was trying to tune servos and could not get the usb rs232 cable that is used to communicate to drives for tunning and such to install correctly. After a couple tries of not connecting to drive i disconnected 2 of the 3 drives power and communication wires going to Kanalog, and focused on working with just one. Drive fault light would come on about 3 seconds after powering it on. After about 5 or 6 attempts of getting USB cable and drive software to connect. I shut off power to drive again. Done some internet searching to see why USB rs232 cable would not install on Windows7 correctly, came back to machine, unplugged USB cable from drive, powered on drive 240v logic power. Drive light came on green and stayed green, no red fault light. Plugged the USB cable back into drive, still not connecting to drive software on PC. Then i enabled the 3phase 240 Main Circuit Power for drive, which runs thru my Magnetic Contactor just like i did 5 or 6 times before and .....AHHHHH sparks and smoke come out of drive!!

    All that said, trying to find out what happened. I started checking for shorts and found continuity across L1 and L2 at my Magnetic Contactor. Followed the continuity back to the isolation transformer. Which brings me to my question. Does anyone know if there should there be continuity between the 240 volt input side of a isolation transformer?

    Thanks for any help,
    Troy

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  17. #117
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post

    All that said, trying to find out what happened. I started checking for shorts and found continuity across L1 and L2 at my Magnetic Contactor. Followed the continuity back to the isolation transformer. Which brings me to my question. Does anyone know if there should there be continuity between the 240 volt input side of a isolation transformer?

    Thanks for any help,
    Troy
    I have no idea why your drive blew, that really sucks

    I would expect continuity across L1-L2. You would be reading the resistance of the transformer winding. In most cases I would not expect continuity between the input and output sides of the transformer, unless one side of the output side is grounded. Then there might be a path back through the neutral/ground system at the pole transformer, but that path should be broken with the power to the machine disconnected.


    .



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    I have no idea why your drive blew, that really sucks
    ...... In most cases I would not expect continuity between the input and output sides of the transformer, unless one side of the output side is grounded. Then there might be a path back through the neutral/ground system at the pole transformer, but that path should be broken with the power to the machine disconnected.
    .
    With transformer disconnected from machine and no power, there is no continuity between input and output. Should i also do a test with input power applied?

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  19. #119
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    With transformer disconnected from machine and no power, there is no continuity between input and output. Should i also do a test with input power applied?
    You could measure the voltage on the input and output sides of the transformer with the power on. You would not want to do a continuity test with the power on. I suspect that a capacitor failed in your drive, it may be repairable.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Thats what i was wondering about. I am waiting to hear back from DMM about what to do with drive.

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