Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit - Page 2


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Thread: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

  1. #13
    Registered Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    You should be fine with a 0.5KVA transformer. None of the devices will draw full current most of the time. I'm a bit confused as to why you need all the different power supplies, seems a bit odd in a new system. Encoders are normally 5V, but everything else is normally 24V (10-30V for sensors), and the operator panel pushbuttons are normally wired for 120VAC or 24VDC.


    For the logic side of the drives, if it is possible to operate those on the 120V control power supply, that's what I would do. This would supply a bit ''cleaner'' power to them. I don't think the buck/boost transformer will be of any use in the current system.

    Looks like you also have a 305 PLC sitting there, that could be useful for a lot of fun projects and adding capability to your machine.



  2. #14
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    The 12VDC is mostly a "just in case" is why i got a 12VDC supply.

    The drives logic wire to L1 and L2 with a line filter on each drive. They are fused for 1 amp.The Buck/Boost is 1.5KVa. It wasnt doing anything with old control, it was wired up but nothing was hooked up to it.

    Ya, iam undecided on what to do with the PLC. There is so much that can be done with Dynomotion boards and C programming, that i dont know if i want another learning curve of a PLC I have thought about using it when i put a tool changer on machine.But, leaning more toward selling it with the old Delta 20 control.

    Thanks again for the help,
    Troy

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  3. #15
    Registered Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    If you should decide to use the PLC for something, I have the software to program it and you are welcome to a copy. I have both DOS and Windows versions. I used to run the DOS version in a DOS window in WinXP, not sure if it would be compatible with Win10. I started out PLC programming on the 305 series back in the early 80s, it was a GE product back then. Most of the current modules and CPUs are backward compatible all the way back to the beginning.



  4. #16
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Wow, i appreciate that, this is one reason i didn't want to mess with it. Software i found was to costly. I still keep a couple XP boxes for such occasions. Thats something they are backwards compatible like that, in a world where everything is obsolete in a couple years and throw it away.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  5. #17
    Registered Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    I sent a PM to you



  6. #18
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Got it, thanks.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  7. #19
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Is a Dry Type Power Transformer the same as a Machine Control Transformer? I have access to one that is a GE 9T51Y9, Primary 240/480 Secondary 120/240 .750KVA. Was thinking of using it as it is in a case and i could mount it outside of cabinet.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  8. #20
    Registered Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    Is a Dry Type Power Transformer the same as a Machine Control Transformer? I have access to one that is a GE 9T51Y9, Primary 240/480 Secondary 120/240 .750KVA. Was thinking of using it as it is in a case and i could mount it outside of cabinet.
    Functionally the same, just packaged differently. So yes, it will work fine.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    So iam now going down the road of wiring my X,Y,Z servo drives(DMM- TECH) STEP & DIRECTION signals to my Dynomotion boards. The drives have I/O connector JP4 with Pin 10 (DIR-) Pin 11 (PUL+) Pin 22 (DIR+) Pin 23 (PUL-). (Also, i dont understand having the 2 different polarity STEP & DIR signals.)

    The Input Circuit Reference in drive manual states that Voltage is + 5VDC +/- 10% and if higher voltage such as 12/24VDC is needed , to contact them. Is there a way to use the 24VDC option for STEP&DIRECTION and where would i wire these connections to on my Kflop, Kanalog, Konnect combo?

    Troy

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  10. #22
    Registered Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    So iam now going down the road of wiring my X,Y,Z servo drives(DMM- TECH) STEP & DIRECTION signals to my Dynomotion boards.

    The drives have I/O connector JP4 with Pin 10 (DIR-) Pin 11 (PUL+) Pin 22 (DIR+) Pin 23 (PUL-). (Also, i dont understand having the 2 different polarity STEP & DIR signals.)
    I'm a bit confused here, your servo drives are Step & Direction input? Do they have an option for a +/- 10V analog input?

    By bringing both pins out (+ & -) they allow you to wire the system either for NPN or PNP input. Gives you more flexibility in the controls. I normally like to use NPN where possible, more noise resistant. In that case 5V+ would be wired to the + pin, and the input would be wired to the - pin. This would require using the NPN output from the controller if it is available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Need TECH Help! View Post
    The Input Circuit Reference in drive manual states that Voltage is + 5VDC +/- 10% and if higher voltage such as 12/24VDC is needed , to contact them.

    Is there a way to use the 24VDC option for STEP&DIRECTION and where would i wire these connections to on my Kflop, Kanalog, Konnect combo?

    Troy
    The Kflop board should output a 5V signal for the Step & Direction inputs of the Dynomotion boards. The encoders, if you have them will, connect to the Kanalog board, but this is where I am really confused. The Kanalog is designed to run a closed loop system with a +/- 10V analog signal out, with encoder feedback. External encoder feedback is not normally used with a Step & Direction drive. The encoder, if it exists, is normally used for position correction by the drive and is not wired to any other device. Having said that, there are systems that can use a second encoder input to ''double check'' the position and autocorrect. But those normally have one encoder on the leadscrew and one on the load or something like that. A rather uncommon system.

    You won't be using 24V for the Step & Direction signals.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Yes, Pin 25( AIN-) is Analog reference input NEGATIVE and Pin 13 (AIN+) is Analog reference input POSITIVE. Input Circuit Referance in manual saying they are Max ±12VDC and max 0.1 mA. My thinking on using the STEP&DIR is that this is more noise immune.
    My last system was STEP&DIR with KFLOP,Kanalog and i used JP5 of KFLOP for my STEP & DIR signals. This connector allows for 4 axes. But i might get a wild hair and do a 5th axis at some point. So where would i wire the 5th axis if all axes are STEP&DIR?

    KFLOP is able to do a dual closed loop system. I plan to later on adding glass scales or magnetic encoder scales on the axis slides to get closed loop at the table. Giving me a dual closed loop system. I have done a couple systems with glass scales closing the loop of stepper motors and got great results out of dovetail way machines. But this would be my first at a dual closed loop system using servo motor encoders and scales.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


  12. #24
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Troy,
    the +/- signify that the step/dir inputs are differential. To make full use of differential signals, when one pin gets driven high, the other gets driven low. It makes things far less susceptible to noise, however you can normally drive them from a single ended source. As Jim says, you can connect the + to a power source and switch the - (NPN - set the KFlop to provide a open collector output), or connect the - to 0V and switch the positive (PNP - set the KFlop to provide LVTTL output).
    NPN is the better option for a KFlop as they can only source 3.3V, however you need to be aware certain pins have pull down resistors, which may cause problems.
    http://dynomotion.com/Help/StepAndDi...StepAndDir.htm lists the required information.

    One thing that may be worth considering, is do the DMM drives support CW/CCW inputs? If they do, then it eliminates the headaches with step/dir timing.

    If you want to make use of the differential inputs, you'd have to buy or make a differential driver board to take the single ended KFlop outputs, and convert them to differential. I made a board for my latest mill, that interfaces with the JP5 connector, and allows me via jumpers to move connections between the Kanalog encoder inputs, and the differential driver. CNC4PC supply line driver boards - https://cnc4pc.com/differential-line-driver.html
    A photo of my board can be found at - https://www.flickr.com/photos/mc_mtb...7674158270440/ I could send you a bare PCB, along with the required surface mount caps/resistors if you like, however you would need to source the line driver chip, jumpers, and connectors (I used identical ones to Dynomotion boards), and be able to solder it together.

    Jim, KFlop will allow you to run step/dir closed loop, and also dual closed loop I.e. run a servo closed loop, combined with a linear scale for more accuracy. With a step/dir servo system, the only advantage would be to see what the servos are actually doing, which should help with tuning. Under normal running, I don't really see much advantage, although it may help catch following errors should they occur.
    Kanalog doesn't close the loop, it simply provides +/-10V outputs/inputs, differential encoder inputs, along with extra IO, which the KFlop fully controls. It's an extremely flexible system, in that you can configure each of the 8 channels to work however you want with the available inputs/outputs.



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