Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit - Page 13


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Thread: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

  1. #145
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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    Sounds like a good plan. Figure out which wire is the manufactured leg and avoid using it, be sure to use the two hots from your single phase supply.

    Seems like your drives fried from over voltage, but i wonder if the phase converter could have been a factor too? I heard once that there can be some kind of an issue running vfds and servo drives from phase converter without a transformer in between. I didnt pay much attention to the issue because both my machines have built in transformers. Maybe someone else might have some more info on it.
    Yup, I know which is which. There is some "home built" converters that actually rob the leg being generated to run 3 phase motor which makes about like 40volts short. The converter i have is built and rated for CNC vfd duty, this is a 20hp from American Rotary. Its same converter i was running machine with before retrofit. The TECO VFD i put in machine with old control had no issues.
    We have 2 of these same converters at work running shop 1 is 20hp and 2nd is 30hp. Running new Milltronics machines and new Hurco mill around 15hp VFDs, 1.2 to 2KW AC Yaskawa servos each and have no problems. These converters actually hold a better voltage tolerance (around 5%) than grid 3 phase 10%.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Ok. Got a new drive and connected to only R and S of Main Circuit. Both R and S are 120Vac single phase making 240VAC. And no SMOKE!! Done some successful jog tests of Y axis with DMM tuning software. So far iam estimating around 450IPM moves, am expecting more, but dont know enough about tunning these drives. Going to contact DMM with news and see if they have any configuring recommendations for drive and my machine setup.
    I also contacted them about testing new drive with 240VAC single phase only and they brought up my 3phase converter again. And said "Normally, you can just connect any two legs of a three phase output go get single phase." What?? Can someone tell me what iam missing? I have never used Delta Wye only Delta from a 3phase converter. Is Delta Wye able to do this?

    Anyhow will post as i get more results on testing all drives and servos.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Good to hear you got it working. Are you using step and direction setup or 0-10v from Kanalog?

    Yes you can think of a 3 phase 240 supply as three separate single phase supplys that are 120 degrees apart in phase. So you can use any 2 wires of a 3 phase supply and have the same thing as normal single phase power. I mentioned this in post 142. It normally would not matter which two wires you picked and it might even be a good idea to use all three combinations between drives to keep things balanced. But considering your on a phase converter, i would just use the two mains and avoid the manufactured leg. No need of loading it down if you dont have too.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Iam currently only testing with DMM tuning software. But when iam ready, will be using Kanalog 10v.

    But your voltage would be higher.

    Will be using converter for spindle VFD only now. And keep rest of machine on 240V single phase. This will allow me to run different attachments like high speed spindle without the need of running converter. Better on electric bill to.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Ok.Been testing replacement drives on 240 single phase with DMM software and performing good, but will need regenerative resistor for stopping fast

    Now am testing with Kmotion. Servo drive is set as Command input Analog. And is connected to Kanalog JP11. Servo mode of drive can be set as Speed Servo or Torque Servo.
    If set to Torque Servo and enable drive's main and logic circuit power, servo immediately runs away.
    In Speed Servo mode I have to set drive Main Gain, Speed Gain, and Torque Filter Constant down to 1 or servo will run away. And can send DAC1=XXX commands but servo will only move in one direction. In this same mode if I set gains back to where they work when testing with DMM software, servo will vibrate hard , but will respond when sending a DAC1=100 command or DAC1=0 and after about 15 or 20 second drive will fault over current. The Constant Torque setting cause s the hard vibration,but tried seeing it to 1 and servo slowly runs away in a incremental/jerking motion. Picture is screen shot of DMM software for parameter setting of drive.
    Is there something obvious ?
    Thanks,
    Troy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-dmm-drive-par-screen-jpg  
    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Unless you have the KFlop configured to control the servo loop, nearly all analogue servos will run away if you just power them up and enable them. In analogue mode, you are reliant on the controller to monitor the encoder, and adjust the control voltage to maintain position. This will be far more noticeable in torque mode with no load.

    Speed mode is usually the most stable operating mode, whereas Torque mode is usually more unstable, however Torque mode bypasses any drive internal speed control/filtering which means the motor should respond quicker, and potentially result in a better tune.

    Personally, I'd suggest starting with Speed mode and any default drive settings. Get the KFlop controlling the servo loop to maintain position, ensure limit switches are disabling the servos, and you have a functional physical E-stop button near. Then connect up the motors to the ballscrews, as they need to be loaded for tuning, and start tuning via the step response screen.



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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    No KFLOP does not currently have encoder input from axis. So i need to do this before testing? Obviously i have never setup a Analog system.

    Limit switches are connected to Konnect right now. But my Estop switch Disable/Enables my contactor which connects/disconnects drive logic and main circuit power.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Now that i think about it, how could there be any accurate control with an analog +/- 10v without position feedback to the controller. I was thinking it worked like Step/Direction. Looks like i got some more wiring to do.

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Unless you have the KFlop configured to control the servo loop, nearly all analogue servos will run away if you just power them up and enable them. In analogue mode, you are reliant on the controller to monitor the encoder, and adjust the control voltage to maintain position. This will be far more noticeable in torque mode with no load.

    Speed mode is usually the most stable operating mode, whereas Torque mode is usually more unstable, however Torque mode bypasses any drive internal speed control/filtering which means the motor should respond quicker, and potentially result in a better tune.

    Personally, I'd suggest starting with Speed mode and any default drive settings. Get the KFlop controlling the servo loop to maintain position, ensure limit switches are disabling the servos, and you have a functional physical E-stop button near. Then connect up the motors to the ballscrews, as they need to be loaded for tuning, and start tuning via the step response screen.
    m_c, Ive been meaning to ask this basic question for a while... How does torque mode vs speed mode setup differ in kmotion? All i see is DAC servo output. Nothing specific about torque mode or speed mode? How do you specify which mode you are using?

    Or do you even have too specify? Is it just a matter of selecting proper mode on the drive and then tuning accordingly? All the PID tuning info on the dynomotion website makes sense to me for torque mode, but i would have thought speed mode would have needed something different.

    I bought my machine partially retrofitted and tuning was done so i missed all the fun. Trying to learn a little in case i ever have to replace a drive or motor with something different.



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    Default Encoder Z index inputs

    Now that i am wiring encoder output of Servo Drives to Kanalog iam going to wire the Z index also, to JP2. When connecting to JP2, can there be 2 axis on one channel like this...

    JP2-CHA_DIFFPLUS_4 ( X axis Z+ index)
    JP2-CHA_DIFFMINUS_4 ( X axis Z- index)

    JP2-CHB_DIFFPLUS_4 ( Y axis Z+ index)
    JP2-CHB_DIFFPLUS_4 ( Y axis Z- index)

    Troy

    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Got some tests done in Kmotion. I am not getting much velocity or acceleration and when watching the DAC ouput it looks like it tops out at about .8 V. I tried entering a feed forward V of 1 or 2 and yee hah! It traveled in + and - direction REAL fast! Very thankful for estop switches. Anyone got any ideas? Here is some plots of Y axis.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-1ya-jpg   Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-2ya-jpg   Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit-3ya-jpg  
    http://www.homecncstuff.elementfx.com/


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    Default Re: Hurco BMC20 Dynomotion Retrofit

    Quote Originally Posted by mmurray70 View Post
    m_c, Ive been meaning to ask this basic question for a while... How does torque mode vs speed mode setup differ in kmotion? All i see is DAC servo output. Nothing specific about torque mode or speed mode? How do you specify which mode you are using?

    Or do you even have too specify? Is it just a matter of selecting proper mode on the drive and then tuning accordingly? All the PID tuning info on the dynomotion website makes sense to me for torque mode, but i would have thought speed mode would have needed something different.

    I bought my machine partially retrofitted and tuning was done so i missed all the fun. Trying to learn a little in case i ever have to replace a drive or motor with something different.
    In terms of difference in Kmotion/KFlop, ultimately in either mode the kflop looks at the motor position, and alters the output voltage to try and achieve the position the KFlop wants. The only difference is in tuning to allow for the different ways each mode responds.

    I'm by no means any kind of expert in tuning, I've just learnt enough to understand the basic principles, and manage to get a reasonable tune on my machines.



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