Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?


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Thread: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

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    Default Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Tom,

    We have an issue which I am not sure if it is Pendant, Mach 3 or Kmotion related but maybe you can give us your thoughts?

    Using the P2-SE Pendant (usb) connected to Mach 3 and then to a Kflop/Kanalog motion system driving servo motors. I experienced an issue last week where the pendant stopped responding (using the pendant) so I triggered the estop in Mach then reset it and on reset the system immediately moved in response to the last commands I entered via the pendant for example Jog Z down. I hit reset to stop the motion and it did stop but as soon as I reset the estop it moved again still executing the commands entered from the pendant when it first failed.

    I hit estop and reset a few times but it kept trying to move, estop usually kills all existing commands it was like something had buffered commands it was trying to send is this possible?

    I cleared it by power cycling the whole system. This is an issue as it’s not safe and broke a tool and damaged a height gauge.

    Now it could be buffered somewhere else but I thought I would start here?

    Thoughts?

    Chris

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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    What did the DROs show when the buffered motion happened?

    Also, if you open KMotion, what does the Axis screen show for each axis?
    I'm not aware that anything on the KFlop side would buffer motion, but if the Destination value is increasing after the reset, I'd guess the motion request is coming from Mach.

    Given the issue happened after the pendant stopped responding, I'd guess that's where the problem lies. I'm guessing that when the pendant has locked up, it's not received the command to flush any outstanding movement, or it simply doesn't flush any motion.
    It might be worth doing some testing by commanding a big move via the pendant, and then hitting E-stop before the move has completed, then seeing what happens when you reset Mach.



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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Could be the plugin for the pendant?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Guys,

    Its so fast that I don't know what the DRO or Kmotion shows. I can try to catch it next time.

    Something else I noticed was I had a plugin for the old pendant enabled so maybe there is a conflict...

    The current pendant manufacturer claims there is no way commands are buffering on it.

    Cheers

    Chris



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    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Chris,

    Mach3 USB Pendents are not recommended. I'm surprised it works at all. I'm not familiar with that one.

    But it may be how you are initializing your system and configuring the axes. For example it could be you are initializing the target Destination to where it was commanded last rather than where it currently is. In that case if the system had been commanded to move someplace and prevented from moving for whatever reason (Drive disabled) then when re-Initialized it would try to servo to that previous position in a violent manner. If the Max Following Error is set to a small value then the axis should immediately disable. But if not, the Axis will move to the target destination.

    Initializing axis 0 to set the target destination to where it currently is at (no motion) can be accomplished with:

    EnableAxisDest(0, ch0->Position);

    HTH
    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Tom thanks for the reply!

    I will look at the Max following error and also check on the initialization. I do disable the axis on Estop so shouldn't that reset the commanded position when re initialized? Do I add that command to the init c program under each axis (same area where the PID parameters are etc?)

    For a pendant can you recommend one you have seen used with kmotion before? So I would connect it to kanalog directly then?



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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Chris,

    Its your choice on how to set the commanded destination when you enable the axis. It usually makes most sense to set it to the current Position.

    You probably already have Enable statements in your Initialization. You would just want to look at what they do and possibly modify them. An axis can be enabled anytime after all its parameters have been configured and whatever else is required for your system (ie enable Drives).

    Regarding Pendent see our wiki here:
    Dynomotion

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Tom,

    I have attached my original Init and my new Init script. Can you have a quick look at them and tell me if I missed anything. I changed the EnableAxis to EnableAxisDest and reduced the following error.

    I was still getting the issue occasionally even with those changes so I unplugged the pendant and so far have not seen the issue.

    Cheers

    Chris

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Gold Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Hi Chris,

    That looks correct except 15000 counts is still an abnormally high Max Following Error. I doubt if that would cause abnormal buffered motion.

    Regards

    TK
    http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Ok very odd, the problem when away when I removed the pendant from the system. Lately I have been working on a way to keep the drives disabled until Mach 3 was up (see E-Stop Wiring?) and I decided to switch the enable signal to the drives powersupply using an enable signal from Mach.

    This worked and kept the axis disabled (to eliminate drift) until Mach was started and taken out of reset but for some reason the Z axis will dive down when reset is hit in Mach 3 with no command until it trips the max following error and stops. Kmotion then shows Axis 2 disabled, hit reset in Mach 3 again and it dives down and trips on Max following error again. This repeats again and again, only way to fix it is to put it back the way it was where the power supply enable was driven by the estop and disregards Mach 3 status. I need to fix this as in that state the axis all drift slightly.

    I checked in the console in Kmotion and it shows Following Error Disabled Axis:2

    First trip - Dest = 1, Position = -20976
    Second trip - Dest=-20976, Position= -35071
    Third trip - Dest= -35071, Position= -48490
    Fourth trip - Dest = -48490, Position= -62414
    Fifth trip- Dest= -62414, Position= -85997

    etc etc

    Following error is set to 5000 for Axis 2

    Not sure if it matters but Z axis also has a physical brake which is driven by the same enable signal could that have an effect?

    Thoughts?

    Cheers

    Chris



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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    Could the axis be dropping under gravity when the brake is released?
    When does the servo loop get enabled in relation to the brake being released?



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    Default Re: Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?

    The Servo loop enable and brake release occur at the same time.

    Cheers

    Chris



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Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?
Mach 3 or Kflop buffering commands?