Would like to know if KFLOP and Kanalog boards will work with my Upgrade

[want-to-be-cnc]

No doubt these questions have been submitted before on this forum, but most likely
this particular set up is different in its own way.

I have a Bridgeport style milling machine which had been retrofitted for CNC but the controller has not been operating for a long time. I was looking at the Mach 3 software which I like. I was also looking on the Mach 3 blogs and found that your boards will work with this software.
I have the following, that I would like to continue to use.
SEM MT30F4-45 analog servo motors, Copley 422 amplifiers, and Anilam A10 glass scale encoders.
From what I can see, I would need a KFLOP and a Kanalog Expansion Board for the Copley 422 amplifiers. I'm not sure about using the Anilam A10 glass scales because I'm confused when reading the information on the What Type of Encoders work with KFLOP page, since I'm not an electronics guy.

After reading a lot of information on other sites I think this would be a good combination but I would like some expert opinions from guys who have had the same type of set up.

Thank you in advance
Larry

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[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

Did you try to do any research on what type of interface your Anilam A10 glass scale encoders have?

Regards

[want-to-be-cnc]

Hi Tom,
I'm not quite sure what type of interface I have on the glass scales. This is all pretty confusing to me. What I do know is that there are tachometers in the motors, and they send feedback to the amplifiers. I also know that the glass scales are used for the DRO, and I would assume they would also be used to tell Mach 3 in what position the axis is in at any particular time. Other than that I'm basically dumbfounded. A couple of years ago I attempted to use Linux CNC but the learning curve of Linux was too much for me. I purchased a PPMC board set from Pico systems. I spent a lot of time talking to the owner Jon, but he is an engineer and way over my head. I am an electrician by trade, which makes me think I should be able to understand all this but I don't. Maybe it's because I'm 70. Anyway, I would just like to get this mill up and running, so I can make parts that only a CNC machine is capable of.
Just ask me a question and I'll do my best to answer it with my limited motion control mind.

Thank you
Larry

[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

What kind of research have you done to find info on your glass scales? Do you know how to use Google? Have you searched the forum? Do you have any wiring diagrams on your system? Have you counted or looked at the connections going to them?

Regards

[ckphillips]

Larry,

Unless you have mechanical issues with the machine, forget the scales. They were for the DRO. I've only ever seen scales used as feedback on a CNC machine on +$500,000 mills to hold sub-thounsandths tolerances. If the machine is mechanically sound and you get your backless settings correct, you will be good without them.

Regards

[Need TECH Help!]

Hi Larry,
First, i dont believe you can wrong with the Dynomotion setup. As Tom said, see what information you can find on the DRO scales. If scales are compatible with the KFLOP, use them for sure, as they will make a great improvement on closing the loop to machine axes and will allow you to use mill manually if you want.I have set up a couple mills like this and got great results. The bridgeport clone i did was easily holding less than .001 tolerances on roundness and size when doing operations such as a spiral down circle mill. Just take the time to get the information on the scales. Maybe post some pictures of machine and scales and the connectors of scales, etc.

Troy

[want-to-be-cnc]

Hello Tom,

Please excuse me for the long delay in replying.
Yes I do know how to use Google, and have done quite a bit of research, but without understanding all the terms in the CNC world, I feel lost at times. I did go out to my shop and looked at the X and Y axis, and a have A10 glass scales. The tag on them reads 10um, and they have a 5VDC TTL output signal. The Z axis scale is new. The output signal is the same but it has a resolution of 5um.
Here is a list of the pinouts for the A10 scales.
....A - Channel 1
....B - Channel 2
....C - +5 Volts
....D - Ground-
....E - Shield Ground
....F - No wire connected

As far as a wiring diagrams go, I don't have any originals as everything other than the power supply for the servo's and amplifiers has been changed. If you need to know something I can probably tell you as I am the one who rewired it.
At the present time I'm using Copley 422 amplifiers, but I've been having problems with two of them. I'm trying to resolve with Copley. If I can't get those two working, I will probably end up replacing all three to make them the same.

Hopefully with this information you have more of an idea of what I have. With the other posts here and the research I've done since writing this post, it seems like the Kflop and Kanalog boards will work the best for my application.

Again, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.

Thank you
Larry Bastianon

[want-to-be-cnc]

Hello Troy,
I am sorry for not responding to your reply to my question. Things have been kind of crazy but I want to get back and getting this mill to have CNC capability.
I just responded to Tom's reply, so you can see what I wrote there. I really appreciate you giving your input. I see you have a website, and you probably would be a good resource for me.
When I have a question, I've got your website as a link on my desktop, so I know where you are.

Thank you
Larry Bastianon

[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

Those are single ended encoders (because they only have A and B rather than A+ A- B+ B-. Those will not work connected to Kanalog as Kanalog has differential inputs. See:
Dynomotion Motion Control Boards for CNC Manufacturing and Robotics Applications


There are two options:

#1 connect those to KFLOP's single ended inputs
#2 add 3rd party differential drivers at your encoders.

I'd highly recommend adding the differential drivers for a higher level of noise immunity. Such as
https://cnc4pc.com/differential-line-driver.html


But you will need 2 more wires in your encoder cables. Are those available or can you provide those?

Regards

[want-to-be-cnc]

Hello Tom,
I finally feel I'm starting to get somewhere. Using the differential drivers is a great alternative. I don't believe there are two extra wires in the existing encoder cables, but I could always add a single pair cable to the existing. This all seems pretty easy to do, other than how do I connect the new wires to the reader head of the glass scale. There are nine pin connectors on the end of the encoder cables at this time, so I know I have two more terminals to connect to. The only other thing is the differential drivers, and how their wired. I clicked on that link and it shows a picture of the driver but it didn't give any information as to how is wired in.
If you could give me some input on how this all works that would be great.
I really appreciate the help,

Thank you
Larry

[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

Its probably not a good idea to run multiple cables to the encoder. So if possible replace with a single cable with more wires. The + and - signal pairs should be on a twisted pair of wires inside the shield.

I'm not sure what you mean by "connecting wires to the reader head". The differential driver would go in series with the encoder cable to do the conversion. The converter should be close to the encoder.

There is a "manual" link on that differential driver page:
http://cncdrive.com/downloads/Diff_l...ver_manual.pdf

HTH
Regards

[want-to-be-cnc]

Okay Tom,

I think I have figured this out.
Right now, the glass scales are terminated by a DB9 connector What I need to do is purchase the deferential line drivers, what I do next is remove the nine pin connector and discard it. Then take the wires and reconnect them to the input side of the differential line driver. I'm assuming the output side is an RG45 female connector, so I get some cat5 cable and terminate the wires to a male connector. On the other end of the cat5 is where I would connect them to the differential encoder inputs on JP 1/JP2 terminals on the Kanalog board.
Does this sound correct, or am I missing something.(Seems like I'm always missing something)

Thank you
Larry

[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

That sounds correct. But it isn't clear to me where the DB9 connector is. It should be near the encoders not near the controller in order for the majority of the cable is with differential signals.

Regards

[want-to-be-cnc]

Hi Tom,
The way it is set up now the DB9 connectors are on the end of the glass scale cables. I'm guessing there are about 6 to 8 feet in length. I think what you're telling me is I should cut the cables down to only three or 4 inches from the glass scales, and then terminate them to the differential line driver, and run the cat5 from there to the Kanalog board.
At the present time I have the glass scales being used for a fairly new Chinese DRO. I was wondering if I could also use the DRO by putting some diodes in the circuit to the Kanalog board to isolated from the DRO power, but I was thinking that might not work because the Kanalog board also needs to power the scales.
If you have any input on this idea I would sure appreciate it.

Thank you
Larry

[TomKerekes]

Hi Larry,

The way it is set up now the DB9 connectors are on the end of the glass scale cables. I'm guessing there are about 6 to 8 feet in length. I think what you're telling me is I should cut the cables down to only three or 4 inches from the glass scales, and then terminate them to the differential line driver, and run the cat5 from there to the Kanalog board.

Yes that is what I was trying to say

At the present time I have the glass scales being used for a fairly new Chinese DRO. I was wondering if I could also use the DRO by putting some diodes in the circuit to the Kanalog board to isolated from the DRO power, but I was thinking that might not work because the Kanalog board also needs to power the scales.
If you have any input on this idea I would sure appreciate it.

That can be messy with signals branching out to two places. If the single ended signals to the DRO worked ok before then it might be ok to leave those in place and just tap into them near the encoder, convert them to differential and run them to Kanalog.

Kanalog does not need to power the +5V to the encoders. The encoders can get power from any clean +5V supply. But there must be a common GND connection between the encoders and Kanalog.

It might be overkill but I suppose the safest way to go would be to to run the single ended signals from the encoder only a few inches into two differential drivers. One would go to the DRO and the other would go to Kanalog. If the DRO only has single ended inputs just use one of the differential driver outputs (for example the + outputs and ignore the - outputs).

HTH
Regards

[want-to-be-cnc]

Thank you again Tom.

I'm feeling very confident that the Kflop/Kanalog boards will work out fine.
Would you suggest that I use solid or stranded cat5 cable?
Somewhere in all my writing I mentioned that I had 422 Copley amplifier's, and only one at this time works. I going to talk to the applications engineer at Copley tomorrow to see if I can get the other two going. One way or the other I assume this amplifier will work with the Kflop/Kanalog boards.
As soon as I find out about the nonworking amplifiers, I will probably order these boards from you, and order the differential line drivers from Amazon.

Thanks again
Larry

[bhurts]

You should use stranded and shielded cat 5 cables for your encoders.

Ben

[want-to-be-cnc]

Thank you Ben,
That makes sense, and I'll do it

Thanks
Larry