Kflop for 3d printing


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Thread: Kflop for 3d printing

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    Default Kflop for 3d printing

    Hello Everyone,

    I've just got a kflop and kstep to control my 5 axis home made 3dprinter. Basically, I could figure out to connect 4 motors to kstep and connect kstep to my kflop. I'm using KmotionCNC to write the G-code for primitive 2.5d geometries. So far I was able to control 3 axis(X,Y,Z) via gcode, but can not make the 4th stepper working.
    Struggling several days on this, I appreciate any suggestion and recommendation.


    Thank you again,
    rf

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi rf,

    What have you tried? What are you trying to do? Drive the 4th axis as "A"? Did you configure the 4th axis? Did you add the 4th axis to the Coordinate motion system? Did you try InitKStep4Axis.c

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi TK,

    Thank you for the quick response.
    In general, I have a 3d printer with 2 extrusion systems. I'm trying to control xyz for root path planning which is fine right now. I also need to control 2 other extrusion systems with A and B. Those 2 are linear stepper motors which extrude clay.
    I added the 4th axis to the coordinate motion system using InitKStep4Axis.c, but when I execute the G-code the 4th axis(corresponded to A) do not show any response. The board sends some pulses to the motor, but it does not move.



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi rf,

    Before attempting to run GCode the first step would be to test if you can get the axis to move using the KMotion.exe Step Response Screen.

    What do you mean by "board sends some pulses to the motor". If the motor just vibrates it might be possibly driven with too high of a velocity or acceleration. Otherwise that is usually an indication that one of the two coils is not being driven. This might be a bad motor, or wiring, or Axis drive. Try and do some troubleshooting steps to determine the problem.

    Regards
    TK

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Thanks Tom!

    I figured it out It was due to the low feed rate in A axis. By adjusting the feed rate it works properly now.

    I've just realized that the motors get really hot after a while they are working idle. Could it be due to motor lock during idle time? If yes, since I don't have much load on them is there any way that I can turn the brakes off?

    My other question is how can I connect a 5th motor directly to the kflop board? I'm using all 4 I/Os of the kstep for other motors, is there also any way to add a 5th stepper motor directly to kflop? if do so, which jumper and pins should I use then? Do I need a separate driver for the 5th motor?



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    HI rfv,

    Yes steppers typically get hot whether running or holding poistion. You can disable KSTEP with I/O bit 45. The InitKStep4Axis.c should have a loop to disable KSTEP after a few seconds on no motion. There is of course a risk of loss of position when disabled.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    HI rfv,

    Yes steppers typically get hot whether running or holding poistion. You can disable KSTEP with I/O bit 45. The InitKStep4Axis.c should have a loop to disable KSTEP after a few seconds on no motion. There is of course a risk of loss of position when disabled.

    Regards
    Hello Tom,

    I'm sorry for the bother, but I'm also working on a 3D printer and I have some questions. If I want to use more than 4 motors, do I really have to get another Kstep to run the extra motors? Or is there a way for me to do it with only 1 Kstep? I'm asking because Kstep brings a C script to run 6 axis, so I'm assuming that there is a way to make the other 2 connections with only 1 Kstep. Sorry for the bother and for the sudden inconvenience.



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi JoanelVR,

    KStep can only drive 4 stepper motors. The 6 axis initialization program assumes you have 2 KSteps.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Wouldn't it be possible to use only 1 KStep and 2 regular stepper drivers?



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Yes, that would also work.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi JoanelVR,

    KStep can only drive 4 stepper motors. The 6 axis initialization program assumes you have 2 KSteps.

    Regards
    Thanks for the clarification Tom! What would you recommend for the connections of the 3D printer head? Do I have to connect the Nozzle thermocouple directly to the KFlop? Also, I know that I have to make it so that the temperature remains constant, so do I have to make a C script that would stabilize the temperature of the printer head when it decreases or increases? I'm sorry for all the questions, but they just gave me this project about a month and a half ago and I'm still trying to figure everything out. I didn't have any experience going into the project. Sorry for the bother and thanks for everything.

    Regards,



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi JoanelVR,

    KFLOP/KStep doesn't have any thermocouple inputs. If you want KFLOP to control temperature you would need to get the temperature reading into KFLOP somehow. Or have the Temperature controlled externally. KStep does have an analog output. That might be used to set a temperature set point to an external temperature controller. Or by adding an external voltage comparator with the output fed back to KFLOP the analog output can be used to measure an external voltage by having KFLOP slowly vary the output voltage until the comparator switches.

    Our Kanalog has analog inputs but that can't really be used easily with 2 KSteps and would be overkill to get one analog input.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi JoanelVR,

    KFLOP/KStep doesn't have any thermocouple inputs. If you want KFLOP to control temperature you would need to get the temperature reading into KFLOP somehow. Or have the Temperature controlled externally. KStep does have an analog output. That might be used to set a temperature set point to an external temperature controller. Or by adding an external voltage comparator with the output fed back to KFLOP the analog output can be used to measure an external voltage by having KFLOP slowly vary the output voltage until the comparator switches.

    Our Kanalog has analog inputs but that can't really be used easily with 2 KSteps and would be overkill to get one analog input.

    Regards
    Thanks for the quick response Tom! Controlling the temperature externally would be the simplest way to solve the problem. Although, I was looking through the Dynomotion web page and I saw that a KStep and a KAnalog could be connected to the KFlop? Would I be able to control other stepper motors with the KAnalog? also, would that be a good idea? Thanks in advance!!

    regards



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi JoanelVR,

    No. Kanalog doesn't have any Stepper Motor Drive capability.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi JoanelVR,

    No. Kanalog doesn't have any Stepper Motor Drive capability.

    Regards
    Hey Tom,

    Thank you so much for the help that you have provided me so far. I've decided to do it by using a PID temperature controller to control the temperature from the outside. That would be the easiest way to do it. Also, I have another problem... I've been testing the motion of the machine and having it trace its path with a marker, but when I measured the drawn parts, the dimensions are off. Also, based on KmotionCNC, the z-axis is off by a factor of 10. I've been using slic3r to create the g-code, but I think that the problem might come from KMotion. Is there something that I might have missed regarding the parameters of KMotion? Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for everything.

    Regards,
    Joanel




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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi Joanel,

    Have you set your systems' resolution in:

    KMotionCNC | Tool Setup | Trajectory Planner | Axis Parameters | Cnts/Inch ?

    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi Joanel,

    Have you set your systems' resolution in:

    KMotionCNC | Tool Setup | Trajectory Planner | Axis Parameters | Cnts/Inch ?

    Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

    Regards
    Hey Tom,

    Sorry for the late reply, but I think that's my problem. I found out that my stepper motors (NEMA 17) have a 200 steps/rev. KStep uses at 16x micro-stepping and my z-axis uses a threaded rod with a 1.25 mm pitch, so that's (200 steps/rev)*(16 Microsteps)/(1.25 mm) = 2560 steps/mm or 65024 steps/inch, correct? Would that be my Cnts/inch for my z-axis?

    For my x and y axis, I'm using a GT2 timing belt (with a pitch of 2mm) to drive them, so that would be 40640 steps/inch for both my x and y axis. Would that be the only problem that I might be having? Do I also have to calculate the velocity and Acceleration similarly? Sorry for all these questions and thanks for everything.

    Thanks,
    Joanel

    Last edited by JoanelVR; 09-08-2015 at 11:27 AM.


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi Joanel,

    That seems correct for your Z axis. X and Y would be similar plus any other mechanical factors involved such as any belt reduction.

    It is usually too difficult to calculate Velocity, Acceleration, and Jerk limits theoretically. Those are usually found by trial and error using the KMotion Step Response Screen. Big enough moves should be made to make sure that the move "Size" allows full acceleration and velocity to be achieved. There are two types of moves that you should be aware of. Moves with Jerk limits (Rapids and Jogs) and those with no Jerk Limits (GCode G1,G2,G3 types). Sometimes it is possible to do Jerk limited moves at higher acceleration and velocity because of the smoother Jerk Limited motion. To test/simulate moves with no Jerk limitation on the Step Response Screen temporaily set the Jerk to a huge number (1000X the Acceleration value). The Step Response Screen uses units of Steps. To convert Velocity, Acceleration, or Jerk from Step units to inches use the steps/inch conversion value.

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomKerekes View Post
    Hi Joanel,

    That seems correct for your Z axis. X and Y would be similar plus any other mechanical factors involved such as any belt reduction.

    It is usually too difficult to calculate Velocity, Acceleration, and Jerk limits theoretically. Those are usually found by trial and error using the KMotion Step Response Screen. Big enough moves should be made to make sure that the move "Size" allows full acceleration and velocity to be achieved. There are two types of moves that you should be aware of. Moves with Jerk limits (Rapids and Jogs) and those with no Jerk Limits (GCode G1,G2,G3 types). Sometimes it is possible to do Jerk limited moves at higher acceleration and velocity because of the smoother Jerk Limited motion. To test/simulate moves with no Jerk limitation on the Step Response Screen temporaily set the Jerk to a huge number (1000X the Acceleration value). The Step Response Screen uses units of Steps. To convert Velocity, Acceleration, or Jerk from Step units to inches use the steps/inch conversion value.

    HTH
    Regards
    Tom,

    Great! I tested the machine, and the z-axis is working better now. For some reason, it's still a little off. The part was suppose to be 2.5 inches, but the z-axis displacement was about 2.25 inches instead. Should I just play around with the steps/inch until I get it right, or am I missing something else?

    I see... I'll play around with the Step Response Screen more then. Before fully using the machine, I always test the response of each axis there. I never though of using it like that, since there are no units shown for the velocity, acceleration, or jerk. Now that I know that the units are steps/time, it'll be easier for me to work with it. Thanks for the help!!

    Also, I've been having some problems with KMotionCNC. For some reason, when I open the program, it stays minimized on the task bar and it won't maximize. I upgraded to Windows 10 a while ago, but it used to be okay at first. This issued started to happen last week. KMotion opens with no problem though. Is it because of my upgrade to Windows 10 that is acting like that? I mainly use KMotion, but I like using KMotionCNC to track the movement of each axis. I'm sorry for the bother and thanks for everything.

    Regards,
    Joanel



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    Default Re: Kflop for 3d printing

    Hi Joanel,

    I can't think why your distance would be only 90%. You might check different distances and back and forth move to see if it is a pure scale issue or if you are missing steps or something. You might also check if you are getting the correct number of motor rotations for the move size.

    I can't think of a reason or have ever heard of an issue with KMotionCNC being minimized. Both KMotion and KMotionCNC are both MFC programs so I would expect them to behave the same. Did you try just clicking on the .exe file or are you using a shortcut?

    Regards
    TK

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


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