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  1. #21
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    I think that is a great idea and will allow the full 1MHz rate of the THCad. But I think your logic is wrong so you are not getting quadrature.

    To convert a 2-bit counter to A/B Quadrature I think the simplest way is with an Exclusive OR gate.

    A = MSB
    B = MSB ^ LSB

    Code:
    MSB LSB  A   B
    ---------------
     0   0   0   0
     0   1   0   1
     1   0   1   1
     1   1   1   0
     0   0   0   0
     0   1   0   1
     1   0   1   1
     1   1   1   0
     0   0   0   0
     0   1   0   1
     1   0   1   1
     1   1   1   0
    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Ok, my bad, I've only used an encoder with counters that looked at the leading edge of the pulse train and didn't care about the duty cycle before. Here is the corrected circuit with a symmetrical 50% offset output. I don't have any LS86s in my junk box but lots of LS00s.
    Plasma Table-xor-dwg-jpg
    Plasma Table-xor-spice-view-jpg

    Sorry about the poor quality of the spice picture, I'm not a graphics wiz.

    One thing this has gotten me thinking is keeping high resolution in the arc voltage measurement. There are actually two regions I need to work in. Most of my work is at 45A with Finecut consumables which use an arc voltage between 60 and 80 volts. The other is when cutting thicker material using normal mechanized consumables at 45A to 85A which is an arc voltage between 110 and 160 volts. I am thinking that a dual range system might be good here with the range selected by a radio button or check box in the THC setup tab (I will need to create this) on the GUI. Of course this will require separate gains and scaling factors for each range that should auto load on selection. Is this possible with out too much trouble? The change will only be before starting to run a G code file.

    John



  3. #23
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    Looks good. I don't see any problem with selecting different Ranges. The PID gains or C Program parameters can always be changed as required. To Test you might use two User Buttons to change whatever is required.

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  4. #24
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hello All

    Moving forward I developed a preliminary requirements document for the new plasma table controller I need. The main feature of this is to have a Torch Height Control integrated with the rest of the machine control. I only cut thin carbon and stainless steel, 14ga typically, and most lower cost solutions that you purchase off the shelf have poor performance with this thin material. This is why I want to refit the existing hardware I have. My present setup will move fast enough, >300ipm, with barely acceptable acceleration 20ips^2 so I am not keen to replace the drives. I am hope to find someone to collaborate with or mentor me in modifying KmotionCNC to be good plasma table control. This should provide a wealth of material for the proposed KFLOP wiki.

    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Plasma Table-controller-rev-2-pdf  


  5. #25
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    Nice document. The most challenging change to KMotionCNC to meet your requirements would probably be the "tabbed" dialog you describe which is fairly difficult in MFC.

    Our wiki is now up. See:
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynomo...i-running.html

    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  6. #26
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Thanks for the reality check on the GUI. This is an area that I know next to nothing about except for the fact that my self guided forays in VS haven't gone well. The tabbed area controls are a feature in the Torchmate (Flashcut) control I currently have. I like it because there is lots of room on the screen for plotter, Gcode display and DROs while only displaying the controls you are using at the time. I will actually be happy if the usual setup info is done in separate dialog windows, sorry if my terminology isn't correct.

    I can see that KmotionCNC does have continuous contouring which is needed for good plasma controller. When KmotionCNC builds the continuous contour out of the short moves can there be M, S or F codes that don't require a motion stop to occur during the move? The reason I ask this is one way to avoid divots (the best) at the end of cuts with an air plasma is to shut off the arc a short distance from the end of the cut so torch is still moving while the residual exothermic cutting finishes (burning carbon in the steel). This is called "overtravel" and is a big deal for best cut quality on open contours and holes. The location of the torch off command is usually done in the PP and is inserted into the stream of short move commands near the end of the contour.

    I will be working out generalized flow charts for material probing and torch height control during the next few weeks for others to comment on.

    John



  7. #27
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Thanks for the reality check. I know next to nothing about GUI development and my self guided forays into VS have been less than successful. I really like the tabbed controls on my present Torchmate (Flashcut) controller. They leave lots of room for the plotter, Gcode viewer and DROs while only providing the controls you are actively using. I will actually be quite happy to have the setup information entered in normal windows dialog boxes/windows (same a present control). Sorry if my terminology isn't correct.

    I know that KmotionCNC does continuous contouring combining short moves into longer continuous moves. Can KmotionCNC have M,S or F codes that don't require stops in the continuous contour? This is important for high quality air plasma cutting on open contours and holes. This feature is a combination of "overtravel" (Sheetcam name) and shutting the arc off before the end of the cut motion. This keeps the torch moving while carbon in the steel continues to burn after the arc is off preventing a "divot".

    I will figuring out preliminary material probing and torch height control flow charts in the next weeks for everyone to comment on.

    John



  8. #28
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    I know that KmotionCNC does continuous contouring combining short moves into longer continuous moves. Can KmotionCNC have M,S or F codes that don't require stops in the continuous contour? This is important for high quality air plasma cutting on open contours and holes. This feature is a combination of "overtravel" (Sheetcam name) and shutting the arc off before the end of the cut motion. This keeps the torch moving while carbon in the steel continues to burn after the arc is off preventing a "divot".
    See: Synchronous IO Commands Embedded in Coordinated Motion
    KMotionCNC allows I/O operations to be embedded into the Coordinated Motion Buffer such that the IO commands are output synchronously (within 90us Servo Sample) with motion.
    Synchronous IO Commands Embedded in Coordinated Motion


    Plasma Table-bufferediogcode-png

    Plasma Table-bufferediogcodeviewerplot-png

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  9. #29
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Thank you, this is exactly what you need to do when plasma cutting.

    Now I have a real newby question on setting up an encoder to read the frequency output of the THCad. From what I can find with my limited search skills the main way to read an encoder attached to a KFLOP encoder input is to configure an axis with the encoder channel as the input and no output. Then this axis channel is set/read using the Pos<N> script command to get the encoder counts. Now I can't find any clock access functions in the script commands, do I just get the number of counts each user period? Does this require the use of WaitNextTimeSlice() to be a stable period? Thank you.

    John



  10. #30
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    I think you want to use a C Program not Console Commands. Below is a C Program that should measure the frequency and place the result in an Axis Dest so you can observe the result in the Axis Screen to check if it is working. You might want to wait multiple WaitTimeSlices (each is 180us) in order to improve the resolution of the frequency measurement while sacrificing update rate. I think after this is working you will want to expand it to convert the frequency to a voltage with maybe some other logic and use it as the Destination for your Z axis.

    Or actually what normally works best is a "dual loop" approach. First configure a normal Z axis (either open loop stepper or closed loop) that can move Z in a normal manner. This will be the "inner" loop. This works for moves when there is no plasma voltage etc... Then at some point switch (using an MCode) to a dual loop mode. Another axis channel is configured as an Outer Servo loop with the Plasma Voltage (Frequency) as feedback and a Target Voltage. The Output of this loop will be a controlled velocity command to the inner loop.

    Code:
    #include "KMotionDef.h"
    
    #define FAXIS 6
    
    main()
    {
        double T0, T1, Pos,Pos0, Freq;
        
        T0=Time_sec();
        Pos0=chan[FAXIS].Position;
        
        for (;;)
        {
            T1=WaitNextTimeSlice();
            Pos = chan[FAXIS].Position;
            
            Freq = (Pos - Pos0)/(T1 - T0);
            T0=T1;
            Pos0=Pos;
            
            // as a diagnostic put the result into the 
            // Dest so it can be observed on the Axis Screen
            chan[FAXIS].Dest = Freq;
        }
    }
    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  11. #31
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Thank you. This is exactly what I need to do, with the exception of a longer (about 8ms) measuring period. I figured out the difference between PC commands to the KFLOP and the functions provided for the KFLOP DSP compiler just before you posted.

    Now I have a question about modifying the KMotionCNC screen. Following Troy's instructions in the attached post work, I will shortly try and actually add functionality. Now if I delete (as opposed to make it not visible )a button or display object where in what code do I have to remove the reference to it so KMotionCNC will run without errors? Also I want to change which screen the example will compile from, presently it uses the IDD_KMOTIONCNC_6_LATHE_2_AXES screen in the example and I want to use another or create my own from another screen (Dialog?), how do I do this. Sorry for the newby VS questions, I find it a very difficult environment to work in.

    I have read references to using version 4.33++ files to build the required software from i other threads. I can only find the 4.32 versions on the web site, where are the latest source files kept?

    I hope to have somewhat clean flow charts for Z axis probing and THC to post soon.

    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Plasma Table-edit-kmotioncnc-faces-2-pdf  


  12. #32
    Member TomKerekes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Hi John,

    Unfortunately Windows MFC programming has a big learning curve. Find-in-files is usually helpful. To delete a control start with the resource editor and select the control. Then look at properties to determine the resource ID. Then do a global search for everywhere it is used. That will lead to other associated variables, message tables, and code where it is associated to other things. Then in turn those related things will lead to other related things. But mainly the resource ID references need to be removed to avoid run time errors when the other code tries to read or write to a control that no longer exists.

    I don't understand the question on the dialog resource. That can be selected in the KMotionCNC Tool Setup as the "Main Dialog Face". Making a new dialog resource and attaching it to a dialog class is somewhat complicated. Maybe just modify an existing dialog resource.

    For the latest Test Release see the wiki:
    Dynomotion

    Sources are included in all Installations

    HTH
    Regards

    Regards
    TK http://dynomotion.com


  13. #33
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    Default Re: Plasma Table

    Tom

    Thank you. I have already successfully killed the present installation I have here! I mistaken thought that if I didn't explicitly save anything I could just close VS and start over from scratch, wrong. Yes I understand now that I need to remove all references to the screen object before I remove it from the dialog. This is going to be slow and frustrating, at least in this case coding problems will not let any of the magic smoke out. I remember years ago when we had a QNX based real time project at work, in those days Windows was not ready for prime time, it was very frustrating developing the GUI in X windows, you would use a function and it wouldn't work as stated in the manual only to find out after several days of waiting for a return call from the product support that the function you where trying to use had been deprecated several releases earlier and was no longer expected to work correctly! It appears the LINUX crowd with the active support forums and wikis are much better now.

    John



  14. #34
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    Default

    Hello TomKerekes & islander261,

    Is there any update on this project? I also need to make a fast PID THC, integrated with KFLOP for cutting 0.6mm (24ga) stainless sheet. Does the approach described in this thread worked? Any comments what was good/wrong?



  15. #35
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    Default

    Hello TomKerekes & islander261,

    Is there any update on this project? I also need to make a fast PID THC, integrated with KFLOP for cutting 0.6mm (24ga) stainless sheet. Does the approach described in this thread worked? Any comments what was good/wrong?



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