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  1. #21
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    WSS, yes those are just spacers. Actually I won't be using them at all with the dual drop table design. The extra x axis drive motor required a upgraded Dynatorch control box. 2 motors = more amps. I have one more day of shop work before I get back on the new gantry.



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    Joe,
    I talked with Greg @DT today and he solved the problem with a little common sense. I did remove one of the spacers and added a washer behind the cam follower to push it closer to the rail. They try to cover all the bases with guys who build their own table this way. We discussed other adjustments that I might encounter later as well. I know you mentioned they were very helpful regarding your retro-fit. They were right on it for me as well. Straight answers and quick. I will have a few hours tomorrow afternoon to fit it to the table. I will take some detailed photos and post them. I am getting ancy (sp?) to rush though it. I forgot about the cable carrier shelf, I will fit it up on Saturday.

    Cheers,
    Tommy



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    WSS, Greg is a good source of info. When I flew down to Kentucky in 2005 to see the Dynatorch machines before I comitted to buy one I toured their first facility. I met Walt who handles sales, his wife who ran the office and the only 2 employees they had at the time, Greg and Bruce, both still working at Dynatorch. It is definitly a family oriented business. I later learned that Leon Drake who designs the machines and Mike Clem who writes the software, provided machine and software support if needed.

    At the time I purchased the We-cim software (about a year later) I flew back to Kentucky for software training and they had moved to a new much larger facility and had added more employees. I recently asked how many employees they had and was told they were up to 15. Talk about growth.

    I normally never give Kudos to companies I deal with but I received above and beyond normal customer service from them and think it is only right to pass this on.

    Being in business myself, Its easy see how they are hurting their competition. I think they probably forced Plasmacam into coming out with the Samson 5 x 10 table and also extending their time limit on after purchase machine support. Dynatorch offers free lifetime support. When you build, design, direct market, and provide support for your product you have complete control of costs, features, improvements and customer satisfaction.

    When I started looking at CNC plasma tables in 2005 there were 2 more players in the market, DynaCNC (which I almost purchased) and Practical CNC. Both appear to be out of busines now.

    I am finishing my shop work today and plan on spending Saturday working on the Upgrade. What do you have planned for your first cuts?

    Last edited by magma-joe; 08-07-2009 at 10:34 AM.


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    The guys at DT do seem to go the extra step. That may be the key to their success. It also seems that what they offered was what we needed. My wife and I went to a few local shops to see other types of machines work and learned a whole bunch doing that. Most of the guys were sharp and really good with their respective machines but we walked away thinking we needed to go to an Esab or an MG or some other high dollar machine. One time my wife said the machine looked like one of those "as seen on TV" scaffold/ladder/step stool things. That did it. I realised I was going to build the table and buy a DT! Servos were a big draw. Support means an awful lot to me. I have never ran a CNC machine before. I had a HP380 I used in my basement shop to cut 440C stainless for knifes by hand, so I will need the help.

    Speaking of being in business for yourself, What type of stuff do you do? I assume it is with autos of some sort as you mentioned a brake caliper drawing (very neat tracing to drawing story)?

    For the first cuts I will play with some 1/2" A36 to practice some parts that I normally do out of AR500. When I feel comfortable I will switch to AR plate. I did manage to sneak a few hours today and get the gantry fitted to the table. It went good. I will post some pics later tonight.

    Good luck working on your project this weekend!

    Tommy

    www.metaltechus.com


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    WSS, I fabricate alot of one off parts for custom cars. It is always something different. Being in the same situation as you with no CNC experience a few years back, you will soon realize that having the CNC plasma is just part of the total picture. You must take the idea of what you want to make and have the machine cut it. This will require some CAD software to draw the part, and some CAM software to convert the drawing to G code instructions to tell the machine what moves to make.

    Many parts are easy to draw, perhaps a square or round shape with some bolt holes. But when you encounter a part that is not one of your basic shapes and difficult to draw in a CAD program, you may want to consider tracing it on a piece of paper or hand drawing it. You then can scan it into a computer and run it through a raster to vector converter program. A vector drawing can then be converted to G code instructions for the machine to read. There are different programs out there to accomplish this.

    I know that Edwardo uses Corel Draw. When I purchased the Dynatorch We-cim program it came with Arbor Image Cutting Shop software included. Here is a video of what it does.
    http://www.arborimage.com/csv2_mov.htm

    Just to give you an idea I have included a picture of an air scoop part I made from a template cut out of card board. It is .080 aluminum. I traced it on a large piece of paper and took it to my Office max store as it was to large for my scanner, had them scan it to a Tiff format and save it on my thumdrive. I then modifyed it a little and converted it in Cutting Shop to a DXF file. Also included is a picture of a fan shroud and a part I made to box the rear frame on a 49 Chevy P/U. I used the Dynatorch to cut the holes for back up lights as well as the fan shroud.

    Support from the manufacturer and networking with others means everything when you are getting up to speed. What application do you use the plate you are cutting for? Sounds like some serious stuff? Any way, time to work on the upgrade!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-air-cover-1-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-air-cover-2-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-49-pu-light-bar-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-fan-shroud-1-jpg  

    NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-fan-shroud-2-jpg  
    Last edited by magma-joe; 08-08-2009 at 10:24 AM.


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    Well did'nt get as much done as I wanted today, to many unexpected fires to put out. I finished the fixture to hold the gantry to the mill table. Since the gantry is 2" wider than the table I made 2 base plates out of 1 1/4" thick "aluminum to hold the gantry to square the ends and drill / tap all the holes.

    I am using a piece of 6 x 6 aluminum angle on each end as reinforcement and a surface to mount the 1/2" side plates to. Everything will be bolted with countersink bolts. I have a nice straight piece of 3 x 12 aluminum channel and want it to stay that way so there won't be any welding. The angle will be underneath and overlap the ends of the channel.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-mill-1-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-mill-2-jpg  


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    Magma-joe,
    judging by the pictures in your previous post, you have one of those jobs were you get paid to play! I say that only half joking, as one is never really good at what they do unless they enjoy it. Your work must be satisfying to see it to completion.

    I checked out the cutting shop video and that is going to be mandatory I think. My wife is a Photographer and photoshop instructor and has a bunch of tricks to turn images into line drawings. I will post an example later when I have a chance to get on my Mac and work one up.

    The parts we work on are usually ground engaging tools. Or parts for rock crushers. We impregnate tungsten-carbide grit (WC) into the wear surfaces for longer wear. Most of the parts are big and bigger!. Attached are some pics of the work I did on Saturday.

    At least you got a start! Now you have the plan in your mind so next time you get a chance it will roll a little smoother. Your gantry will look good and the "no welding" will keep it true for sure. I have not done much aluminum, but I have actually seen it visibly twist as a guy was welding. I look forward to seeing the progress!

    Tommy
    WSS

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-photo375-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-photo372-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-photo378-jpg  
    www.metaltechus.com


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    Thumbs up

    Magma-joe love your work. i can see you're getting alot out off your machine with those one off car parts. your gantry is coming along nice can't wait to see it in opperation. good luck



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    Smile

    WSS,
    I worked in the mining industry for 10 years so I can certainly appreciate the products you produce. I still watch the price of metals and have noticed lately they have rebounded nicely. With the economy the way it is this is good news. What process do you use to (impregnate) the surface of the metal. Is this a submerged arc? I would be curious to see your image to line drawings? I have heard you can do this with jpeg pictures. Would be nice learn more. Please post when you have time.

    Morvaman,
    Thanks for the kind words. Yes I do enjoy using the Dynatorch. The upgrade will definitely expand my capabilities. I will be curious to see your dual drop design also. Seems there is always something to learn here on the zone. Perhaps after I see WSS's oxy set up I might have to try that to. My Dynatorch was my first CNC. I enjoyed it so much I also recently purchased a CNC knee mill.



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    magma-joe,
    We use a true mig spray to transfer the arc and deposit the TC using a magnetic feeder into the liquid. A little filler wire is used but it is mostly the molten surface used as the binder for the TC. You can control the carbon migration with the amount of volts being output by the CV power supply. TC has a very high melting point so it holds most of it's shape even at the bottom of the puddle. Submerged arc brings back a lot of memories, both my grandfather and dad did quite a bit of submerged arc welding building up wear parts on dozer undercarriages.

    I did a real quick job on your gantry clamped to your mill, I will do a video and post it a bit later. The quick version is: turning the image into a grayscale (1) then duplicating the layer (2), inverting the top layer (3), then changing the layer blend mode to "exclusion" on the bottom layer (4), changing the layer blend mode to "difference" on the top layer (5). Now you should have a black image, use your arrow keys (with top layer active) to "nudge" the top layer (6). Each tap of the arrow keys will give or take from the effect, play with it to get the detail you want. Now you have a black background with white details. When you like the contrast, flatten the image (7) and "invert" the image (8). You will now have a line drawing that can be exported. If you have PS-CS3 extended, there are many more export choices. I did this on an older version on my laptop (CS), so I will post it as a jpg.

    I am missing something here, it did work but it feels like I missed something. I will check my notes or ask my wife how she does it. She uses it to drop on top of an original copy of the layer (16bit color) to give a dimensional look. It makes an ordinary photo jump at you.

    Good luck, PS is a lot of fun and goes on forever. Let me know if it works.

    WSS

    Edit, I remembered what it was, after the previous steps: open "levels", play with the sliders and watch the contrast change. Click OK when you like it. If the white seems to turn dark (gray), use SELECT>COLOR RANGE and eyedrop (sample) the "gray" and click ok. You will see the marching ants showing the selection. Go to EDIT>CUT, and the gray will disappear. You will have a black and white again!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-mill-1-jpg  
    Last edited by WSS; 08-11-2009 at 02:30 AM. Reason: missed some points


  11. #31
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    WSS, it sounds like you have your (I'll call it hard facing) process dialed in. A three generation American business is a wonderful thing. You don't see many of these around but the ones that are do just fine no matter what the economic conditions are. I have a great deal of respect for them.

    The line drawing is very interesting. However I'm alittle confused about the program? What program are you using? PS-CS3, CS? I know the hardest thing to convert is a jpeg photograph. I have only played breifly with a jpeg image in Cutting Shop and have heard others talk about the difficulty in converting them also. Perhaps its like anything else and just requires time. I would love to see the video. Thanks

    I plan to get a little work in on the table today, I'll try to get some pics later.



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    magma-joe, sorry about that. I should have said PhotoShop! The program I used is Adobe's Photoshop CS (creative suite), when they update they go by CS2, CS3 and so far up to CS4. To make it even more confusing, in CS3 they added an extended version that does more file conversions, specifically for forensic work. Corel may be able to do layer blend modes, and so might PhotoShop Elements (Adobe's light version of PS and considerably less money). The blend mode of the layers is the key. It can be any photo file type, RAW, jpg, tiff psd. But generally you will export as a jpg. I hope that helps

    Lets see some progress pics! I have decided to go with a water table insert. After I get a few hours of running under my belt, I will start the insert build. After reading the link you posted for the victory machine, I can see the advantages. Hope your time spent today was fruitful.
    WSS

    www.metaltechus.com


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    WSS, That is very interesting information on Photo Shop. I would love to see your video when you have time. I have discovered that the quicker you can go from idea to finished part on your table, the more money you can make. I also like the thought being able to do things your competitors can't. The competition is definitly increasing out there as the economy sinks.

    The pics will have to wait another day. Just about the time I was getting started on my gantry my wife called and informed me she got layed off from her job. She was quite upset. I'm going to try again today make some headway on the gantry.



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    magma-joe, nobody wants to get those type of calls! Sorry to hear that.

    You are right on the mark. The quicker and more stuff you can get in your customers hands the better. They tend to call you back first and not shop around too much.

    I found a Victor MT310 machine torch w/acetylene mixer that can also use LP on ebay today. It is a good price and new if anyone is interested.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Victor-MT310-Tra...d=p3286.c0.m14

    These are probably $400usd from your welding supply. Would be perfect for CNC.

    Cheers!
    WSS



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    WSS, well I made a little headway today. I got the gantry ends machined and the 6 x 6 angle notched and one end installed with the first two 3/8 countersink bolts. Its probably overkill however since it's going to be a dual drop I want to be sure it is as rigid as possible. The side trucks will be 1/2" 6061 aluminum. I will fab some different motor mount plates as the existing Dynatorch ones won't work. Here is a couple of pics so you can get the idea. It will look something like the gantry inthe 3rd picture.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-g-1-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-g-2-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-4000-series-jpg  


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    magma-joe,
    how will you mount the drops? Will it be V-rails on both sides or just the one. The V-rail side with the floating cam followers underneath is pretty clever. Can you incorporate that on both sides? The gantry looks stout enough to put an air drill head if you wanted. I like over built. You only complain about over built once (when your building it!).

    I am curious about the dual drop, It would be a nice feature. Will you keep the same water table?

    WSS



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    nice work.



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    Thanks Morvaman,

    WSS, my plan is to use the V rail with spring loaded cam followers underneath on both the master and slave sides. The V wheels on the slave side will be a floating design so as to correct for the V rails not being perfectly parallel with each other. I will redesign the two motor hinge plates that span the 3" width of the gantry ends and mount on the top and bottom of the existing gantry ends.

    I am not sure when Dynatorch incorporated the cam follower design underneath. My single motor x axis used a spring loaded cross shaft which help hold the gantry down.

    My existing rail mounts that the gantry rides on are a floating style. I will just remount them on the outside of the table and below the table surface. Everything else will remain the same including the water table. I have included a couple of pics I took of the cam follower design from another Dynatorch table I looked at recently.This will give an idea for those who are following along.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-c-follower-1-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-c-follower-2-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-gantry-rail-jpg  
    Last edited by magma-joe; 08-14-2009 at 09:41 AM.


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    magma-joe,
    How is the build going? I hope you are so busy you can't find the time to work on it (LOL)! Having a floating slave side should work good with the V-rails on both sides. It would make alignment less critical. I have spent some time at the link you posted awhile back for the victory machines, they have some clever designs. The page about the water table pros and cons sold me. I like there head set-ups as well. They must have a linear bearing that holds both directions (up and down) to be able to drill? That requires a lot of down pressure. Will you do something similar, a dual-V design perhaps?

    I will purchase the we-cim and arbor image tomorrow. I had a friend/customer come by today with a piece of cardboard cut into the shape he needed and asked if I could do it. I of course said "yes". So I better do it. I spoke with Gary today (whittlock eng.) and learned a bunch. He said if the item is to big to scan, then take a picture of it with a flat lens, turn it to B&W and import it. I guess it would be important to know the X and Y dimensions to scale it correctly. But he sounded confident. I know you have good luck with it. I like the idea of template to cut file. I do get some DXF files, but it is usually a paper tracing or the actual part. Was the training worth the trip to DT?

    Cheers!
    WSS



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    WSS, The build is coming along. I will have some more pics in the next couple of days. My gantry will be just like yours, with 2 linear rails mounted on top. The Victory people do make one serious plasma machine. I have looked at their pictures many times looking for ideas.

    As for your question about the We-cim / Arbor Image software training. It is professional grade software and there is alot to learn about both. The We-cim video on the Dynatorch website

    http://www.dynatorch.com/UserManual.htm

    covers a good portion of the onsite training session. However at the training session you get many application specific questions from the people attending, plus more in depth training in the production type features like nesting, part in part nesting, cad drawing, remanant sheets, chain cutting, etc. I would study the video in depth and then depending on your skill level make a decision whether to go for training. Dynatorch does have a very nice training facility where they manufacture their machines.

    Arbor Image offers some training videos on their website. It's funny that you mention the Cutting Shop software today. I had a customer come in with a template of a suspension part they needed 4 of. Here are some pics of the conversion.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-conversion-1-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-conversion-2-jpg   NEW BUILD / Dynatorch Upgrade-conversion-3-jpg  


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