"Dynatorch users"

[WSS]

Jim, I have a 80' run to do for power. It is 230v 3ph (w/100a breaker). Is 6 awg big enough to run the 1650?

I do believe we will go with the 1650. Consumable cost and availability will more than cover the extra $450 over the Miller 1251. Plus I can hound you for advice here on the forum!

Cheers,
Tommy

[jimcolt]

Tommy,

You should talk to an electrician to verrify that the wiring is adequate for your shop...especially if you have a 100 Amp circuit...the wire actually needs to be sized for 100 Amps.

The Powermax1650 draws a maximum of 46 Amps when connected to 230 volt 3 phase, 60 hZ......6 AWG wire is good for about 55 Amps. If you have a short (less than 10 feet or so) pigtail from the 1650 to an outlet...then you could use # 6.....but the permanent wiring to the outlet should be sized for whatever the circuit is protected for....which you said was 100 Amps.

Jim

Jim

[WSS]

Jim,
I will probably put in a 50 or 60 amp breaker and save the spare 100a for our Miller 652s. The 6/4 will carry the amps as needed. The problem is the cost of 4/4 (I think the copper is gold flashed or something) it is almost double the price of 6/4. I found a 100' spool (6/4) w/free shipping on ebay for $219usd. It looks like a recurring auction as they show 49 pieces available.

I was in awe of the pic you posted with the holes. The info is great. I hope to eliminate a whole bunch of drilling with this set-up. Along this line, what is nitriding? Is it a carbon migrated scale or something actually produced by the plasma arc? Is it a heat affected zone kind of thing only backward? How hard and thick is it? If I can't get good holes right away, can they be cleaned up with a drill or is it a abrasive wheel job?

It looked like the pic showed the sample piece on a plasmacam table. I know it gets knocked about as being a hobby toy, but I have seen some cool stuff (online videos) produced on them.

Thanks for the input,
Tommy

[jimcolt]

Tommy,

Nitriding is a thermal/chemical hardening of the edge that is caused by the nitrogen content in air (plasma gas)....air is close to 80% nitrogen....and combined with the heat from the process produces kind of a case hardening....in the range of .005" thickness. There is some taper in holes cut with plasma....and the inner boreis very hard....drills or reamers will not last very long if they are used to true the holes....although I have not experimented with using carbide or other high quality drills. On exterior contours the hardness can easily be ground off. This nitriding can affect weldability as well....often producing porosity or voids on directly welded plasma cut surfaces.

Industrial plasma systems are designed to use oxygen as the plasma gas for cutting steel....eliminating the nitriding issues. Do not use oxygen in a plasma designed for air....it can cause catastrophic torch and lead failures....and is dangerous.

Jim

[herrmc]

Hello All,
Thanks to all for the input, (private messages, and posts). I have decided to order a table from plasmaroutecnc.com ... Overall I think that the Dynatorch would have been a really good table as well, but a few things tipped it for me.

1.) Proximity: Plasmaroutecnc is located here in Oklahoma about an hour from my house.... that has to count for something for me....

2.) Linear guide rails on both axis... not sure how much better the linears are than the V-Groove... and nobody really tried to persuade me (plasmaroute has a model with v-groove as well).... the linears just looked better to me... I noticed that the DT had Linear on the gantry axis, and v-groove on the long axis.

3.) Price - While this was not any where near my primary criteria... it is nice to report that this table was considerably cheaper considering the options that I got.

4.) Servos VS Steppers - Not sure I am qualified to comment on this.... but this topics seems to have almost evolved into a religion.... and it was a tough choice for me because both sides have a good argument (as far as I can tell)... but the overall consensus that I was able to come to was that the Steppers are more than adequate for my needs, and the pricing for the replacement of a servo seemed pretty high (if one were to go bad)... I like the fact that I can get parts cheaper, and from more than one source.

5.) Software - Again, I am not overly qualified yet to comment... but from what I have read it seems that the Mach3 software has a really good reputation... and I like the idea of the software being open and not tied to the vendor. (The maintenance seemed pretty high for the DT software as well)...

6.) Gantry - The gantry on the ZR unit that I am purchasing is much heavier than the gantry on the DT unit from what I can tell... probably overkill, but if I want to do routing later it should support it.

===
In my discussions with DT Walt at DT, he seemed very eager to dismiss any competitor as inferior just because they might not have been as large or well established... I suppose that there is safety on going with something that is proven... and you guys here are definitely a testimony to DT... but every company started out small... and I don't believe that small is always bad... Time will tell, and I will keep the board updated.

I respect that this thread was started for discussion between DT users, so I will start a new thread soon to post info and progress with my new table.

Thanks again to all.

Originally Posted by herrmc Greetings, I live on a farm in central Oklahoma. To make my living and feed the family, I work on computers, but I am blessed in that I am able to do most of my work from home. With my "Farmer" hat on, we are occasionally challenged with repairing old farm equipment, which forces you to be a fabricator... which I have done from my youth with a regulare hand oxy torch and arc welder. Additionally many peices of farm equipment are not that complicated to build if you have the means to cut out the parts. This has led me to have the "itch" to purchase a cnc plasma system... A good friend of mine has a torchmate 4 x 8 machine I went and watched him cut out some stuff... he has had the machine for several years and is happy with it. I got a quote from torchmate, and through searching the web found out about dynatorch. Haven't made up my mind "IF" I am going to purchase or what... but I think I am pretty close to going over the edge. I read this entire thread last night... and now I have some questions that hopefully you guys will answer: 1.) Plate Marker: Haven't seen much discussion here about it... anyone using it or have nuggets of wisdom, or just an opinion? 2.) Oxy-Fuel ... same as above... I think I would like to have the option, but I have seen hardly any comments here about it? 3.) Tube Cutter ... same as above... 4.) Torchmate started me off on a quote for a Plasma cutter "Thermal Dyn cutmaster 101".... recommendations or comments (I have read lots about Plasma... but never used) 5.) Water table: I noticed on one of the online vidoes that it appears they are cutting with the metal and the tip of the plasma cutter submerged? Most of what I have read here and in other blogs had the water barely touching the bottom of the material surface or a few inches below... would be interesting to here comments on this 6.) Water table: I can see obvious benefits to the water table... as well as cons... I find myself wondering if a cheap easy alternative might be a "mini water table" that could be used for cutting smaller items... I would envision something maybe 2' x 3' rectangular, where you could remove a few of the slat supports... and drop it in... then manually add the water... probably not a very visual description, but I can see it clear in my mind.... ha... That is all I can think of for now... hopefully it will provoke some discussion

[morvaman]

Good luck.

[WSS]

herrmc,

like yourself, I have not really done any plasma cutting (machine or hand for that matter). I do have experience with automatic machines, not steppers or servos just 90vdc motors. If you are doing this for fun or the occasional job, steppers are fine and probably a good jumping in point. I do not know the traverse speed of the plasmaroute machine but the DT is 1k per min. That translates to production for me. Even when the cut speed is the same it is what it does when it is not cutting that matters in production. Where the software is concerned, look at the screen shots of both and see how much of it you understand, without any experienced input. I noticed that Mach motion has a servo package (actually two- a danaher and a mistubishi) that can be retro'd and a real nice active screen to demo the software. Watch the "lets do some cutting" video on the DT site and compare the ease of use before you decide. On the subject of rails and guides, Remember that plasma and oxy/fuel generate a lot of "rail jamming" dross, dust, slag and stuff. look at both and see if they can be both durable and precision.

Good luck with your purchase either way!

Tommy
Wear Surface Specialists

[WSS]

Originally Posted by jimcolt Tommy, On exterior contours the hardness can easily be ground off. This nitriding can affect weldability as well....often producing porosity or voids on directly welded plasma cut surfaces. Industrial plasma systems are designed to use oxygen as the plasma gas for cutting steel....eliminating the nitriding issues. Do not use oxygen in a plasma designed for air....it can cause catastrophic torch and lead failures....and is dangerous. Jim

Jim-

First, Thanks a bunch for the input.
Next, when you talk about a air plasma cut surface being subject to porosity when welded- Can the proper shielding gas fix this? My thought is if it is nitrogen enriched scale, then adding oxygen should counter it. Say 3%-5% oxy in argon? I will be impregnating Tungsten Carbide into some of the cut surfaces. To do this we "GMAW spray" the surface until molten and drop TC into it using a variable mix of shielding gas. Oxygen is one of them, it may seem strange but it works. Some of the Asian castings will still have sand in the pores or maybe a little bondo (or something like it) covering the big air pockets. And European AR plate will often have rust from the trip over. Both situations respond well to oxygen.

Amen on the Oxygen being dangerous! Flashback protection on everything you can and let a pro "clean for oxygen service".


Thanks again!

Happy Easter to all.

Remember what Easter is all about and say thanks to Him.

[WSS]

Anybody looking for a near new one? 600usd+shipping or if your in So. Cal. you can pick it up or look at it. I am going to list on ebay if no one is interested.

happy Monday
WSS

[millman52]

Originally Posted by herrmc Hello All, 2.) Linear guide rails on both axis... not sure how much better the linears are than the V-Groove... and nobody really tried to persuade me (plasmaroute has a model with v-groove as well).... the linears just looked better to me... I noticed that the DT had Linear on the gantry axis, and v-groove on the long axis. 4.) Servos VS Steppers - Not sure I am qualified to comment on this.... but this topics seems to have almost evolved into a religion.... and it was a tough choice for me because both sides have a good argument (as far as I can tell)... but the overall consensus that I was able to come to was that the Steppers are more than adequate for my needs, and the pricing for the replacement of a servo seemed pretty high (if one were to go bad)... I like the fact that I can get parts cheaper, and from more than one source. Thanks again to all.

The V rails are fine & would be my choice for a plasma table. They are pretty much self cleaning & require no periodic lubrication. That also means little or no mopping, wiping, or cleaning of oily sludge from your machine

Steppers would also be my choice. If properly sized for the application there is ample speed & torque. The deciding factor(s) on the servo vs stepper debate for me was very simple. Less interferes with using steppers (rf noise etc.) less wires & no encoders to worry about dust/smoke & hot molten metal flying about to destroy, wear out, break etc. Then when it comes to a replacement motor. Steppers can be picked up anywhere CHEAP.