Build Thread New Dynatorch 5x10 Dual Drop side Frame/Water Table Build - Page 2


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Thread: New Dynatorch 5x10 Dual Drop side Frame/Water Table Build

  1. #21
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    Very nice design! What was the trade off in weight capacity to have the bearing upside down? We use a lot of round rail linear and the trade is 75% capacity to run upside down, is the rail you are using similar?

    We have a DT gantry (mechanical parts) and will probably need to do something like you have done soon as the cam roller set-up we have now is a PITA, can't let your mind wander and forget to sweep the rail.

    WSS

    www.metaltechus.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by WSS View Post
    Very nice design! What was the trade off in weight capacity to have the bearing upside down? We use a lot of round rail linear and the trade is 75% capacity to run upside down, is the rail you are using similar?

    We have a DT gantry (mechanical parts) and will probably need to do something like you have done soon as the cam roller set-up we have now is a PITA, can't let your mind wander and forget to sweep the rail.

    WSS
    I have not found where the manufacturer lists a difference in load bearing based on position, although I am sure it has some bearing (no pun). The actual bearing surface area on the rail is identical whether the rails are mounted right side up, upside down or horizontal in either direction.The linear rail is a 25mm wide rail and has a hole for a 1/4"-20 shcs ( Or 6mm to be more correct ) every 1.9". The rail is rated for dynamic loads up to ~4800# and static loads of ~8000 with the right bearings. The bearings we are using only have 2 bolt flanges, so I think they are rated lower, but I think they have just as much bearing surface area on the rail as the 4 bolt flange variety. These parts seem to be obvious overkill to support a 300# gantry, and will hopefully result in many years of trouble free, nearly maintenance free service.

    If there is anything I can do to help you let me know, I have appreciated referencing the information contained in your build log and would be glad to be of any assistance to you.

    OH BTW... IT LIVES!!! Thanks to some setup help from Russ we made some very nice first cuts wit the machine today. A little more testing and tuning and this thing is going to rock! I'll get some pictures when I get a chance.

    Sean



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    I suspected the profiled type was rated different. That makes it very diverse compared to the old style round rail. Here is a graph of the steep drop in capacity on our 1.5' open rails. Our gantry weighs in at 247lbs now (w/o oxy console). I see the new style has a lot more steel in it, looks like less flex on the drops too, we have not had any problems with flex but I see a definite stiffer gantry on yours.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Dynatorch 5x10 Dual Drop side Frame/Water Table Build-ssu-24-opn-rate-jpg  
    www.metaltechus.com


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    Not much of an update here really... Once we got the table moving under it's own power I got distracted and forgot to take any pictures/video of it running.

    It's funny, I haven't even operated the table at all yet other than jogging it around. The boss is like an excited kid with a shiny new bike that he won't let anybody else ride yet.

    I thought this was cool... None of us at the shop has any experience whatsoever running or really even being around a running CNC plasma machine. But, because of the awesome software that Dynatorch has, coupled with the the help of a thorough startup support call from Russ we were able to get really nice cut quality results right from the start. The first thing Michael cut out which I failed to get a pic of yet was a circle around 3" dia. out of some 11ga. diamond plate steel. Another one of the guys at the shop "Chico" was thoughful enough to sneak the first circle home with him and he brought it back the next morning attached to a wooden plaque he hand engraved and dated with a Dremel tool. Very Cool! I hate I didn't get a picture of this yet, but I will get it up here.
    After cutting the first circle he cut two more identical circles to adjust THC settings and get the feel for it.

    THIS...is the second thing Michael cut... surely a logical next step right?


    Michael: "Yeah, I think I got this circle business nailed, lets do a 3d spider puzzle."
    He has wanted to do one of these for years, I knew this was in the back of his mind, but didn't figure it wold be the second thing he would cut. He didn't even consult Russ on this one so this may be a surprise to him too if he see this.

    I think the cut quality despite the lack of our experience is a testimony for the package Dynatorch puts together. These parts had very minimal slag that was easily removed by fingernail, or faster with the knotted wheel in the background.
    Before anyone says anything, yes we know his head is screwed up This is proof of our newbieness. Michael set up the cut order wrong and cut the head out of the sheet before he cut his eyes or feeler slots. There also wasn't any lead-ins on the parts since they were cut right off of a web file without going through WeCim yet.

    The plate skeleton


    Sean



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    Pretty good first cuts! Those puzzle things are pretty fun too. Can't wait to work with you guys!



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    LiveOff-Road,

    I am planning to build a CNC water table and have learned a great deal from reading your thread. I know this thread is almost almost 2 years old. I would really like to hear how the table is working out for you. After using it for almost 2 years have you learned anything that you would change in your table design?



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    Cool, I'm glad this post has been helpful to someone.

    Sorry to take a while to get back to you, I have wanted to come answer, just been short for time with lots going on.

    I am back to working for myself again and have not worked at Titan for about a year and a half now but I am still in touch with Michael pretty regularly and just had him cut out some parts for me a few weeks ago.

    I think the biggest thing we would change (Michael is changing) is that we would have spent the little extra to have the water tank parts cut out on another CNC. There are some reasonable limitations to what you can do when hand building a large sheetmetal tank like that where you are trying to hold some degree of precision. Cutting them out on another machine would have allowed us to easily put internal ribs in the tank that were tabbed/slotted into the tank walls to help it be more rigid and if done correctly would have held everything a lot flatter/squarer. The design/drawing work was pretty much done to have the tank cut out by CNC but the water table ended up being built in kind of a hurry to try to get the table running. It has kinda been the sore thumb of the whole machine since it was built (Not as flat or rigid as we hoped for).

    Everything else has been pretty much great. Titan has actually built a few more tables based off of this one for some pretty high profile customers who saw ours. There were a few small changes made to the design to make the setup easier. Instead of just using shims to get everything aligned Michael came up with an idea to use a bunch of set screw/jacking bolts on the linear rail mounts that push against the machine frame and the linear rail on each side of the mounting hardware. These allow the linear rails to pretty easily be adjusted in practically every direction without having to mess with shims at first.

    One other thing, unless you are building a table for show, I would skip powder coating or even spending much effort painting anything inside the water table. I think it is going to get NASTY in short order no matter what you do .

    Thats about all I can think of or have time for right now. Let me know if you have any other questions.

    I sure wish I had one in my shop!

    Best regards,
    Sean



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    Sean,

    Thanks for the reply and update on how the system has worked out. On this table was there any support inside the air bladder section? How was it supported? Also, what CAD package did you use to design it? Lastly, I really like the design for the burning bars, how they are in 3 removable sections? Has that worked out well? Are these sections attached to the table or just sit on top of the table? Was there any feature to these to aid in leveling them? How important is it for them to be level?

    Sorry for all the questions. If you don't have time to answer I understand.

    Thanks.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mw67rs View Post
    Sean,

    Thanks for the reply and update on how the system has worked out. On this table was there any support inside the air bladder section? How was it supported?
    There was no internal support other than the crossover tubes being welded to both the top and bottom levels of the bladder. Even though I have seen a lot of water tables made this way I think there should be internal support. As I mentioned previously motivation to finish resulted in a simpler manual fabbed water table to be built instead of a more precise/rigid cnc cut internally gusseted water table. Incase you meant how was the whole thing supported...you can see in the pics that there was a perimiter frame rail set inside the main frame rails that the water table sat on at the transition from the bladder to the upper tray. There were also long./trans. cross beams that supported the water table in the center.

    Quote Originally Posted by mw67rs View Post
    Also, what CAD package did you use to design it? Lastly, I really like the design for the burning bars, how they are in 3 removable sections? Has that worked out well? Are these sections attached to the table or just sit on top of the table? Was there any feature to these to aid in leveling them? How important is it for them to be level?
    The table was designed in an older version of pro-e (Wildfire3)

    The three removable sections worked very well. They are not attached to the table. There was no built in means of adjustment. It is best for the cutting slats to end up parallel to the machine axes, but much more important of a concern if you didn't have a torch height controller to compensate. The way this frame/tank was made there should not have been a need for independent leveling of the slat holders with a well built tank, but again this hurried spot made things a little more complicated and required some shimming to get it level and solid which has been fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by mw67rs View Post
    Sorry for all the questions. If you don't have time to answer I understand.

    Thanks.
    Sorry that I forgot to get back to this for so long. I am happy to answer questions. I wish it had taken off a little more while we were building the machine. It was my first CNC machine build and I had hoped for more of a community design effect so we could end up with a great machine and putting our heads together maybe we all could have learned something from it. Late is better than never.

    Regards,
    Sean



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    Just wanted to update the table. Sean did a great job at designing and fitting all the components.
    The table has worked excellent for the last two years. As Sean stated we also made some table for Dynatorch when there customers wanted something a little more substantial.
    As Sean stated we have made a few adjustments to the brackets that hold the linear rails. to let us set up the table faster and easier.

    There are a few things I have/will change:

    The water table needs internal supports

    The top part of the water table needs to be formed in a channel (like Dynatorch does it.) to keep water from sloshing out of the table.

    We deleted a few of the bottom supports that help hold the water table. They just were not needed.

    Make spacer feet for the slat holders. Once the water table is welded up there is just no way of ensure that the bottom is flat. The slat trays are strong enough that there is no need to support them in the middle.

    I would not powder coat the water tray. It gets nasty and dirty by the first month.

    I would not powder coat the frame. The next one I am Painting with Sherwin Williams Polane paint. The powder is just not suited for the constant water.
    The Cables that i received from dynatorch are about 5' to short for the wider table and to be able to move the console around comfortably. The last time I talked to Russell at dynatorch he said they are making the cable longer now.

    I will also design some type of filter screen to keep the smaller particles from entering the bottom part of the water table.

    *Lining the dual linear rails up with out a machined surface is still difficult. To help with any tight spots I drilled and taped and installed two grease fittings in the new linear mounting plate that Sean had designed. I did not tighten the mounting plate all the way and pumped it space between the plates with a low friction grease. This lets the plate to float (if you will) just enough to take out any tight spots in the x rail.*

    Michael



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New Dynatorch 5x10 Dual Drop side Frame/Water Table Build

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