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Thread: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

  1. #81
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Problem solved (with fingers crossed); turned out to be pretty easy, even for a novice like me. After studying the schematics some more, I realized that the same 115V connection to the thermal switch also connected with the ATC relay board (pdf page 104, schematic page 11, CN2 on lower right of board). Not coincidentally this board controlled the two motors for the ATC that had been disabled. I traced the cable from CN2 to the terminal block that tied it with the thermal switch and removed it, then threaded it directly to the transformer secondary connection that I had removed. This bypassed the thermal switch (for the time being) and brought it back to being isolated from the machine ground. Once I completed that, everything initialized finally.

    Case closed on this issue. Time to move on to the next part of the project.

    Dan



  2. #82
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Happy the hear it worked out.

    You're going to be a CNC tech before it's over



  3. #83
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by drhanger View Post
    YES! WE HAVE LIFTOFF!

    Once I found the problem with the secondary (many thanks Jim), then I had to ponder for a while how to trace that problem. Finally it dawned on me, just disconnect all the secondary connections and go from there. Once I got that done, the resistance was infinite, okay, so far so good. Then it was just a matter of re-connecting one by one until I found a pair that were suspect. I reconnected everything else except those two, and there it was: no ground fault on the amp, the spindle initialized and I was able to run it through all the speeds. I'm stoked! Well, the spindle bearings are clearly shot (really loud) but at least that's a lot more my element than the electrical.

    About that pair of wires, I'll have to trace that down and see what it feeds, the schematic should help. I checked the resistance between each wire and ground, one of them was the 27 ohms, and the other was about 20K. Does that mean anything, like which side of the connection is the more problematic?

    At this time I had re-installed the second amp, which has not been converted to the single phase, so Jim you were right, it does run on single phase without the rectifier, but it sounds like the rectifier is the preferred way to go because of the power available. Is my understanding correct on that?

    Well, many many thanks to both Jim and Marty for your help with this. And hopefully this will be invaluable help to someone else bumbling around with their cnc electronics.
    Sorry I'm late to the party, been very busy and CNCZONE is not notifying me of new replies to the thread despite me being subscribed.
    Good you have the spindle running! Not so good the bearings are noisy. Indeed, will be interesting to hear what pair of wires you disconnected and where they go.
    So, you have the isolation transformer powered up?

    Marty



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    AWESOME Too bad about the spindle bearings.

    Sorry, I have no idea about the wire pair, you are just going to have to trace them down.

    I really don't think it will make any difference which rectifier you use, the 3 phase or the new single phase. They both do the same thing, the 3 phase rectifier just has an additional diode pair for the third leg.

    I'm happy to be of some help.
    Agree, the only thing using the puck style rectifier gained you is eliminating the old diodes and whether or not they were problematic. The new rectifier was cheap.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by drhanger View Post
    Problem solved (with fingers crossed); turned out to be pretty easy, even for a novice like me. After studying the schematics some more, I realized that the same 115V connection to the thermal switch also connected with the ATC relay board (pdf page 104, schematic page 11, CN2 on lower right of board). Not coincidentally this board controlled the two motors for the ATC that had been disabled. I traced the cable from CN2 to the terminal block that tied it with the thermal switch and removed it, then threaded it directly to the transformer secondary connection that I had removed. This bypassed the thermal switch (for the time being) and brought it back to being isolated from the machine ground. Once I completed that, everything initialized finally.

    Case closed on this issue. Time to move on to the next part of the project.

    Dan
    Great detective work Dan!
    So, what is your next move?



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Hey Marty-

    It's looking more and more like I'll be 'Frankensteining' the two machines into one good one. There's no question about the bearings, spindle makes a lot of noise! I removed and replaced the spindle cartridge just as a 'dress rehearsal' for when I have the riggers once again provide power for the stored machine and remove the spindle from it and put it in the home machine. I know that spindle is good because I've heard it run several times and never noticed anything. So at this point I'm kinda resigned to having one good machine, and one to provide spare parts and eventually discard as scrap iron I suppose.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Did you take the belt off the spindle to see if it wasn't the spindle motor?
    Replacing the spindle bearings is likely doable....

    Marty



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty_Escarcega View Post
    Did you take the belt off the spindle to see if it wasn't the spindle motor?
    Replacing the spindle bearings is likely doable....

    Marty
    Yeah, that was the first thing I checked was the motor or the spindle. It's definitely the spindle--when I had it on the bench just turning it by hand I could hear and feel it. I did contact DM and talked to Roberto--he gave me some procedural instructions which involves an oil pressure injection to pop the top off to get to the rest of it. There are three at the spindle nose and one at the top. He had the 3 lower bearings in stock for $150/each, but not the top one. I think it's only one or more of the lower ones, but won't really know until I actually attempt it. I'll set it aside for now and if the time comes when I really need it I'll do something about it then. Right now I just don't want to spend any more than is necessary to get it going.

    If I don't have to cannibalize the other machine too much I could eventually work on getting it back into operation as well. Right now I've got the servo amp out--during my adventures with that I fried a circuit board component--doesn't look bad at all and I'm sure that can be repaired. With that and the spindle I (will) have two items from the other one, and at the moment I'm not seeing anything else I need out of it, so maybe in the future I won't need to do that much to get it going again.



  9. #89
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    If you're interested in sending the spindle out for rebuild, I used these guys to do mine. Home Their website is a bit lacking, but they do good spindle work.

    I had them do the 5 bearing upgrade to my BP clone spindle, very satisfied with the job. The total was about $900, including a #30 taper regrind. I think the standard rebuild is about $600.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    If you're interested in sending the spindle out for rebuild, I used these guys to do mine. Home Their website is a bit lacking, but they do good spindle work.

    I had them do the 5 bearing upgrade to my BP clone spindle, very satisfied with the job. The total was about $900, including a #30 taper regrind. I think the standard rebuild is about $600.
    Holy smokes, that sounds cheap. Just buying the bearings alone (including the top one) is likely to cost me more than 600, not to mention the labor. Thanks for the lead.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Drhanger,

    I've been reading over you post. You are in the Phoenix area? You should be talking to this guy: mc-machine.com - Home His user name on this forum is "Capri". He has a few of these DM440M machines. Plus he used to work for DynaMechtronics as a repair tech. He has helped me many times on this forum.

    Oh, and back to your original question on Phase converters..... I use a 5hp to run mine. works fine, except that I can't turn on any other equipment in the shop. too much voltage drop.

    Good Luck with you machine. I have a DM440M, and for the past two years it's been a dead horse, collecting dust.

    Bill K



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by bkobernus View Post
    Drhanger,

    I've been reading over you post. You are in the Phoenix area? You should be talking to this guy: mc-machine.com - Home His user name on this forum is "Capri". He has a few of these DM440M machines. Plus he used to work for DynaMechtronics as a repair tech. He has helped me many times on this forum.

    Oh, and back to your original question on Phase converters..... I use a 5hp to run mine. works fine, except that I can't turn on any other equipment in the shop. too much voltage drop.

    Good Luck with you machine. I have a DM440M, and for the past two years it's been a dead horse, collecting dust.

    Bill K
    Used to....Mike has been pretty busy and all but fallen off the face of the earth....I tried to contact him several times with no response. Not going anywhere with that I don't think.



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    Member 2ferrous's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Just as a note of caution, when you're swapping parts to make one good machine out of two, the three ball screws are fitted to each machine uniquely.
    If you take the Y ball screw out of one machine and tried to fit into the other, the bolt holes will sort of line up but not 100%
    And when you start the machine back up, it makes horrible noises.
    Trust me on that one.

    However the balls screw assemblies are pretty easy to service.
    So is the spindle motor. I've rebuilt two of mine already.
    Super smooth and quiet with new bearings.


    Timothy

    Dyna Mechtronics DM4400, HAAS VF-0E, HAAS Mini Mill


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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ferrous View Post
    Just as a note of caution, when you're swapping parts to make one good machine out of two, the three ball screws are fitted to each machine uniquely.
    If you take the Y ball screw out of one machine and tried to fit into the other, the bolt holes will sort of line up but not 100%
    And when you start the machine back up, it makes horrible noises.
    Trust me on that one.

    However the balls screw assemblies are pretty easy to service.
    So is the spindle motor. I've rebuilt two of mine already.
    Super smooth and quiet with new bearings.


    Timothy
    Yeah I knew the ball screws would not be something I would wanna exchange between the two. So far I haven't had any noticeable issue with the screws, but then I haven't done any cutting yet so no way to know about the accuracy yet.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ferrous View Post
    Just as a note of caution, when you're swapping parts to make one good machine out of two, the three ball screws are fitted to each machine uniquely.
    If you take the Y ball screw out of one machine and tried to fit into the other, the bolt holes will sort of line up but not 100%
    And when you start the machine back up, it makes horrible noises.
    Trust me on that one.

    However the balls screw assemblies are pretty easy to service.
    So is the spindle motor. I've rebuilt two of mine already.
    Super smooth and quiet with new bearings.


    Timothy
    Hi Tim,
    Were you able to pull the armature out of the housing to service the bearings?
    I'm having some surges and can actually see spikes on the load meter.(with no real load on the spindle) I'm trying to figure out where to start looking. Arcing on the commutator or perhaps an issue with the Tach?



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Yes, I totally disassembled the motor. Getting the tacho feedback armature out was the tough part.
    I had surges and intermittent running on my spindle motor too. Traced it back to the driver and a bad switching relay.

    Timothy

    Dyna Mechtronics DM4400, HAAS VF-0E, HAAS Mini Mill


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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    So Dan, where are you on your DM4400 projects?

    Marty



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Hey Marty--

    I've been working on removing old electronics, etc., and researching what I want to put in. I've been in talks with Arturo at CNC4PC and putting together a shopping list. I've also talked off and on with Timothy (2ferrous) by email, who has been helpful with some things as well. I have considered a few times starting a build log, but I haven't seen a lot of activity in this DM forum so didn't really think there would be much interest. What do you think, should I do it? I wouldn't want to continue in this thread, especially since it's gotten so far afield from the original subject line. As you already know I'm pretty weak in the electrical dept. so a build log may generate enough interest to get some input on that part, but I wouldn't want to do it just for that, I'd like it to be of interest and help to others with this machine. I just didn't think I would really be contributing much (although making mistakes is always interesting, or at least entertaining, for others, and a good learning process, LOL).



  19. #99
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Of course you should start a build log, I for one would be interested. Also it would give me a chance to contribute or at least confuse the issue.



  20. #100
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Well, I hope I can make it interesting, and would love to have you along for the ride, Jim (and anyone else). I'll see what I can do to get started in the next few days.



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