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Thread: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

  1. #61
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    See attached picture showing the jumpers in their original location. Terminals 1&2, jumpered to the far right pair of terminals which is the +/-15VDC power supply and the chassis fan.
    You would put 110VAC on terminals 1&2,

    When I spoke with SD Tech support they did tell me it would run on single phase BUT said it must be an isolated power supply. When you visted me, I told you that I did hook up the 3 phase isolation transformer on the machine, with 240VAC Single phase. I then went to the secondary side of the isolation transformer and found the terminals that provided 110VAC I used one of the secondaries for the Servo Dynamics Amp.

    You can do away with the 3 phase bridge as previously mentioned, Very easy to wire up. Look at the bridge you bought on the side you will see a + sign on one terminal and a - sign diagonally from it. The + terminal goes up to the + terminal on the beer can capacitor. The - terminal goes up to the - terminal on the beer can capacitor. The other two terminals on the bridge should say either AC or show a sine wave symbol. Those go to Terminal block terminals 1&2 (which have the jumpers over to the far right terminals to feed the fan and the +/-15VDC power supply)

    Marty

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter-sd3060-amp-jpg   DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter-bridge-jpg  


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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Hi Marty-

    Okay, here's some photos of my wiring, please take a look and make sure it's good. The red wire is on the + side of the rectifier and capacitor; the black wire is on the - side of the same; the two white wires are going to terminals 1 & 2 on the left side of the terminal block with the jumpers going to the two terminals on the right side (PS and fan). The old 3rd white wire is taped off. One thing you didn't mention was the ballast resistor (?) on the former 3 phase rectifier--I saw in your picture album you had moved it to the terminals on the capacitor so I did the same. Look okay?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter-img_20170113_163127-jpg   DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter-img_20170113_163114-jpg   DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter-img_20170113_163223-jpg  


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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Dan,
    It looks right, BUT you need to put some thermal compound on the new rectifier and bolt it down to the plate. I used one of the original threaded holes that mounted the 3 phase Bridge. Be sure to use some heavy gauge wire.
    I would bolt down the bridge but it may be ok for testing. The resistor across the capacitor is to bleed the voltage off of it after you power down. Be sure the leads do not contact the cover.

    For those wondering what pictures he is referring to, here are pictures to my conversion of the same machine.
    https://goo.gl/photos/neSAL3iVeFEAtjTRA

    Marty



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty_Escarcega View Post
    Dan,
    It looks right, BUT you need to put some thermal compound on the new rectifier and bolt it down to the plate. I used one of the original threaded holes that mounted the 3 phase Bridge. Be sure to use some heavy gauge wire.
    I would bolt down the bridge but it may be ok for testing. The resistor across the capacitor is to bleed the voltage off of it after you power down. Be sure the leads do not contact the cover.

    For those wondering what pictures he is referring to, here are pictures to my conversion of the same machine.
    https://goo.gl/photos/neSAL3iVeFEAtjTRA

    Marty
    Okay, good. I was planning on bolting it down to the plate, but was short on wire and didn't feel like stopping to go to Lowe's, figured it would be okay for testing. Glad you mentioned the thermal grease, wouldn't have thought of that.



  5. #65
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Dan, Looking Good!

    Marty, Looked at your pictures, quite a project.



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Dan, Looking Good!

    Marty, Looked at your pictures, quite a project.
    Jim, it was a year long project working fairly consistently on the weekends. I tried to warn Dan when he visited. :-)
    It was gratifying to get the machine running with a reliable tool changer.

    Marty



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Here's my tool changer project in action. This is part of a complete retrofit of a Shizuoka AN-S I'm doing for a friend.





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    Post Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Well guys, still getting the ground fault, so this conversion to single phase did not solve anything there--I kinda figured it wouldn't but had hopes anyway. I may even be further behind but hopefully not. Last night after getting your approval on my wiring I put the chassis back in the machine and made my connections. I didn't want to take time to figure out where to tap for 115VAC for the moment, so thought I would use my rigged cable to household outlet for temporary power. After powering up the machine and before attempting to initialize I plugged in the power to the amp and instantly blew the house circuit breaker. I figured then I had sent my amp to amp heaven, threw up my hands in disgust and gave up for the night.

    This morning I pulled everything apart, setting aside the main amp board for now and went back over all my work, looking for any bare wires I may have missed. Nothing, clean as a whistle--I'm nothing if not thorough, just ignorant. Looked all over for any signs of damage I may have caused but nothing apparent. I then decided to disconnect everything and go back over step by step while connecting the power step by step--probably not the best procedure but I figured at this point it probably didn't matter. Went through everything, leaving the new rectifier until last (which I had completely removed at the beginning of troubleshooting). As soon as I connected it and plugged in, there went the breaker, so I started thinking the rectifier was no good. I had ordered four of them so had spares--grabbed another one and tried it out. No problem, the chassis fan came on and no evidence (yet) of any problems. At that point I powered down and put the first rectifier back just to prove my point, only this time it worked perfectly fine too. Well I searched one more time for short circuits, jostled all the wires thoroughly, nothing. So I had a gremlin--still don't know what the issue was.

    I went ahead and put the main board back on the chassis and put everything back in the machine, connected everything up as before, powered up the machine and finally plugged in the power cable to the house. No problem with the breaker but, sadly the ground fault showed up again. So here I sit with a big hunk of iron in my garage, boo-boo faced (me, not the machine).

    Jim, I checked out your video, fun to watch that ATC arm spin around and turn upside down like Rosie the Robot. I laid in bed and let the youtube autoplay show me some more of your videos, fun stuff. And yes, Marty did warn me, but not only am I ignorant, I'm also stubborn.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Well that just sucks. There has to be a ground path between the transformer secondary and the machine ground. That is not correct. The transformer should isolate the drive power section from the machine ground. With the power disconnected, check the ohms between the transformer secondary to machine ground. It should read infinity or several megohms depending on your meter.

    It's too bad I'm on the other side of the country from you (based on your post times. I'm in Oregon) I'll bet I could have you machine running in about 30 minutes. But we'll keep helping you until your machine is running.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Hi Jim-

    I'll bet you could have it running in no time, too. Again I really appreciate you sticking with me. I'll be leaving shortly for most of the day, may not get back to it until tomorrow, but I will make those checks and update you.

    I'm in Phoenix, just one hour different (well, in the winter, we're the same in the summer). I grew up in that area, specifically Tumwater, Washington--just south of Olympia the capital. My mother and two brothers are in Vancouver, so I have a pretty good idea what your living conditions are like--just had an ice storm pass through there. Well, maybe you're on the east side of the state, which is pretty different than the west. What part of Oregon?



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Ahhh, I thought you were on the east coast. I'm in Sandy, about 20 miles east of downtown Portland. A bit cold and snowy here right now, Vancouver has about a foot of snow, but we only have a couple inches here, with temps in the 20s for the next couple of days.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Well that just sucks. There has to be a ground path between the transformer secondary and the machine ground. That is not correct. The transformer should isolate the drive power section from the machine ground. With the power disconnected, check the ohms between the transformer secondary to machine ground. It should read infinity or several megohms depending on your meter.

    It's too bad I'm on the other side of the country from you (based on your post times. I'm in Oregon) I'll bet I could have you machine running in about 30 minutes. But we'll keep helping you until your machine is running.
    Jim, a couple of quick questions before I go. The transformer you refer to is the big isolation beast with the three large coils, right? The primary side is where the three heavy gauge wires from mains connect to, and the secondary is where all the lower voltage taps come out to the machine. So any of those lower voltage taps would be what you mean? Then the machine ground is any part of the castings or electrical cabinet? There are numerous ground wires connecting to the base of the transformer shelf, those are all machine grounds?



  13. #73
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Yes, the big isolation transformer, the secondary is the lower voltage side in this case. Yes, the grounds are any part of the machine or electrical cabinet, and the grounds connected to the transformer shelf are machine grounds.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Jim, I think you may be onto something. I checked all the secondary terminals against ground and got about 27 ohms consistently. I was pretty surprised at first so I checked several ground areas, always got the same thing, so no question about it. I also checked the meter carefully that I wasn't getting M or K, just plain ohms.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    YES! WE HAVE LIFTOFF!

    Once I found the problem with the secondary (many thanks Jim), then I had to ponder for a while how to trace that problem. Finally it dawned on me, just disconnect all the secondary connections and go from there. Once I got that done, the resistance was infinite, okay, so far so good. Then it was just a matter of re-connecting one by one until I found a pair that were suspect. I reconnected everything else except those two, and there it was: no ground fault on the amp, the spindle initialized and I was able to run it through all the speeds. I'm stoked! Well, the spindle bearings are clearly shot (really loud) but at least that's a lot more my element than the electrical.

    About that pair of wires, I'll have to trace that down and see what it feeds, the schematic should help. I checked the resistance between each wire and ground, one of them was the 27 ohms, and the other was about 20K. Does that mean anything, like which side of the connection is the more problematic?

    At this time I had re-installed the second amp, which has not been converted to the single phase, so Jim you were right, it does run on single phase without the rectifier, but it sounds like the rectifier is the preferred way to go because of the power available. Is my understanding correct on that?

    Well, many many thanks to both Jim and Marty for your help with this. And hopefully this will be invaluable help to someone else bumbling around with their cnc electronics.



  16. #76
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    AWESOME Too bad about the spindle bearings.

    Sorry, I have no idea about the wire pair, you are just going to have to trace them down.

    I really don't think it will make any difference which rectifier you use, the 3 phase or the new single phase. They both do the same thing, the 3 phase rectifier just has an additional diode pair for the third leg.

    I'm happy to be of some help.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    I believe I've traced the pair on the schematic to a motor thermal switch. Don't know if you can make it out on the pdf--page 90 (page 1 of the schematic). The two single phase inputs are connected to the lower two coils on the transformer, and the suspect pair are the 115V connections. Those lead to page 3 (of the schematic) which leads back to page 2, where the thermal switch is in zone J14. I can't find any mention of the switch in any other place. It should be in the troubleshooting section, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, it does make sense to look for that, possibly the switch is stuck closed or has a bare wire.



  18. #78
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    The thermal switch shows normally closed, and the 27 ohms now makes some sense. That would be about the resistance of the relay coil. I would just leave it disconnected and run without the thermal switch if the machine runs OK, you are not going to be loading this machine too much anyway. If you want to connect it, then installing a small control transformer (240/120, 100VA or so) to run the fan, the +/- 15 V PS, and the thermal SW circuit might be the way to go. This would keep the drive power section isolated from everything else.



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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Short lived victory. The wiring diagram bears a pretty strong resemblance to this machine, but so far some of the particulars are wrong. That circuit controlled some of the ATC moves; there are three motors connected with the ATC, and 2 of them got disabled. Unfortunately one of the two controls the drawbar, so I can't even use a tool manually. So I can either have the spindle turning or I can have a tool in the spindle, but not both. Well, it will have to wait until another day.



  20. #80
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    Default Re: DM4400-what size 3 phase motor for rotary converter

    Maybe it's time to take a break, one thing after another. But that's half the fun of doing stuff like this.

    Now I guess it's just a matter of getting the enable signal to the motors. We'll be here to help.



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