First - let me start off stating I'm no stranger to CAD systems. My first CAD system was for doing PCB Artwork design in 1979. Most of my 'mechanical CAD' software has been 'bottom shelf' stuff like the original AutoSketch for DOS (by AutoDesk people) and I still have TurboCAD on 2 floppies in my garage. But so far - Dolphin has just STUMPED me. Whatever paradigm of drawing they are using - it is not coming easy for me. That' s not negative... lets' face it, 1979 is a long time ago and some of the grey matter MAY have 'gelled' just bit since then and become a bit less penetrable.
Enough background... I don't want to go through the WHOLE learning curve to get to my wood router - I want to build MY stuff, not practice cutting and drilling shapes. I have a pattern for a guitar pick guard that I want to route. To get the shape i:
Took a picture on a high-contrast background
Loaded it into GIMP as a JPG
Adjusted the colors/contrast so I got the outline as clear as I could
Saved as JPG
Loaded modified JPG into Inkscape
Used the 'Trace Bitmap' to create the vector drawing
Removed and modified a lot of the redundant path nodes and adjusted the outline to match the bitmap
Saved as an R14 DXF (only DXF option available)
Tried to import into Dolphin - no joy - they support R12
Opened in LibreCAD
Saved as R12 DXF (an option available)
Opened in Dolphin CAD (YEAH!! IT WORKED)
So - now I have it in Dolphin - and because of the curved nature of this outline (think 'French Curve'), I have a gazillion arcs. And I ended up with 2 path nodes really close that created a tiny, small diameter arc (with 'near points' literally touching all the way around) between them - not necessary (a mistake) and won't route anyways. But I can't seem to edit this outline. I show/display the 'near points', but I can't delete them or edit out this tiny arc. I can't do anything to this drawing except draw 'new' lines and arcs.
Leaving the arc in for now - when I attempt to 'contour' the outline - it goes part way round... and then stops at the beginning of this little arch. How do I get this software to see the entire outline as a single contour? And better yet - because I really do NOT want it as single contour (I want to change tools for one small portion of the outline), how do I get this thing to start and stop where I want it to?
I've tried submitting these kinds of questions to their support email - but I never get a response. I figured I would try this forum. If I can't get this to work - I'm probably going to have to go back to all the free software I was using before and just take the loss on the cost of this software.
you'l want to install the "betterDXFimport" module for inkscape or I think there is a Even Better or Better Better DXF Export" (yep....those are the names) Or one from Big Blue Saw. Not sure if that is free? They make it much smoother. Been exactly where you are now. My son and I then installed and tried a few of these and went 'Ouuuuu Ahhhhh" and high-fived! It will fix ya up.
CG.
OK - finally just gave up and went back to what made sense and worked... LibreCAD and a pretty small CAM program called 'ESTLCAM' (Estlcam.de 2D / 3D CAM Software und CNC Steuerung...). When I looked at Dolphin last summer - I was looking at all the CAM options at the time. I was just starting out with my router and wanted to know what I might have to pay for a package. If I recall correctly - Dolphin didn't publish their pricing on the web, so I emailed and asked. They got in touch and (again - memory here - could be wrong), and it was going to be $1500 - WAAAY too high for me and my small-time budget, considering I am a total techno-weenie geek, have dozens of old computers stacked up I can put to use and know there is a WEALTH of 'free' software out there. They recontacted me in January and now I had some 'experience' with my router table. We discussed the price and my budget and I wasn't interested in being a pain - but I wasn't willing to spend that much... yet. I was able to make things work with free software so far.
Well - they wouldn't let me go and eventually agreed to my low-ball price for their package (I'm not going to reveal the price - everyone has to make their own deals). The words were "We want you to use our package, get on the forums and promote it for us". They promised excellent tech support and upgrades. Well - here we are... months later. I haven't had one single question answered from their tech support (except when I didn't read the instructions completely about installing my license key) and I have asked a few via email.
Now granted - I have a real-time job and this is just a hobby for me, so my questions happen AFTER business hours. I understand I can't expect an immediate response - but... 24 hours?? even maybe... 48 hours??
Before I get flamed for being too negative - I have watched the videos on the website... multiple times. I've even watched some of the foreign language videos on YouTube - but... they just don't really cut it for answering my questions online. Now THIS project (pick guard for guitar) - I finally gave up, decided to stick with LibreCAD and EST LCAM... if I had a question, Google would find me an answer from somewhere or someone every time. Same with Inkscape. I PAID for Dolphin because I figured I would get 'support'... but that hasn't been my experience.
I apologize in advance to Dolphin - I really wanted this to be my package choice. Unless there is a way to resell it to someone else, I figure I'm STILL going to 'take a run' at every new project with it and when I hit the wall, I'll try emailing support or posting here on CNCZone. I'm all about 'second chances'... I've certainly had my share. But at this point... Dolphin has been a disappointment... maybe that will change - we'll see.
I understand what and where you're coming from. I do. The Dolphin Cam component is only part of a process that works for me. The 2nd half will usually involve the D-CAD product as well. I think there are possibly a few issues overall in this thread. Maybe I'm off base here.. But it sounds like you are where I was not too long ago???
1) DXF quality and setup when importing into DCam. Use of smoothing, use of AutoCad or other CAD to flatten or layer as desired. This is all exterior to Dolphin anything.
2) Use of D-CAD with D-Cam to setup Contours for proper procedures and functions.
The concept of "Contours" for the DCam product took me the longest to understand. Once done though I do fly thru my jobs from Inkscape or draftsight or AutoCad. The only thing I can think to offer is to ask if you are expecting to go from Inkscape to Milling w/o using the D-Cam product? I found it's an integral part to allow me to get my Contours the way I want them.
Mill Procedures and functions are not always ideal upon import of a DXF. Especially from InkScape or other 'DXF' modules. As a Tip, you'll want to use R-12 ascii DXF outputs as the default for DCAD/DCAM imports in many situations. (via many hours of trial and experimentation on my end). The default contour assignments for me are usually not what I want. Especially from InkScape's default DXF output (in my work anyway). You would have the same DXF quality issues if you pulled it into Draftsight or Autocad. The zillion arcs can be cleaned up w/ the smoothing feature of Inkscape. Then taking the output via betterbeter DXF Inkscape plugins is also part of your solution probably. It was for me anyway. Anyway,,,,,, Enough tech goo. Just trying to help. the contours concept is in a tip doc I wrote after one night of an all nighter making myself get thru my own learning curve. I hope you succeed and you'll get there. The product does work and DXF's can be used as well as IGES and 3-D to CAM. I've done it and do it regularly. But you need to get good, clean files and use D-CAD to get your contours just the way you like them. If you want my tip doc it's posted here in the forum.
I have no affiliation w/ DCAM. But I'm a teacher and have been for a long long time. So my habits to help are meant in the best possible way. As a fellow CNC Newb who maybe can help out others on this forum. My fav quote may sound silly here, but I've lived by it for a long time so here goes... 'Life (Experience) is a tough teacher. You get the tests first and the lessons later on". (abbrv. to my tastes....)
the version 12 dxf dont have groupcode for splines..
inkscape can export in pdf too..
if dolphin can import pdf files.. that will be bezier actually..
your another option, use draftsight, import the picture and draw over with lines and arcs only..
then you can save out in ver12 dxf and load the ""curves"" in dolphin..
inkscape cant draw ""arcs"" only beziers.. tough it can export splines..
Nice tips! Thanks. I too use Draftsight and AutoCad Educational version (free to students and teachers). We also do import the pics into draftsight, copy or stencil over and then do a weld to get a single line output. Of course, again, you need to know what you want the Router (or Mill) to do thus know what contours you need where. Thanks for the freeware notes. Will check them out also!
CG
I'm sorry you are having issues; if you could, please send an email to andre@dolphincadcam.com and we'll get right on the issues for you. Please attach any associated files.
countryguy - FINALLY had a chance to look at your post completely from a big screen (not a phone or tablet). Thanks for the thoughtful response - I appreciate the encouragement. We might want to take this 'offline' unless it's helpful to everyone on the forum. But I want to dig a bit deeper into your knowledge...
First - I THINK I understand the concept of 'contouring' within the Dolphin world. If I were to 'high-level' describe it there are 3 phases to a Dolphin design (2D & 2.5D at least - I have not delved into 3D yet).
1) Design
- can be done in almost any design tool of preference
- final result MUST be an R12 version/compatible .DXF file
- if I understand your specific experience - an 'ASCII' formatted DXF file (I thought all DXF were in ascii - but I'm not a DXF expert)
2) Contour
- a bit of a Dolphin-centric concept where shapes are defined as machining paths
- done from within the D-Cam product whether or not D-Cam was used for the design
- this is where the 'quality' and 'compatibility' of the DXF comes into play - D-CAM requires an R12 version DXF (and again - according to your words, 'ascii' format)
3) CAM
- where the previously defined contours are then assigned to machine functions with defined tools
- this is where the file (after all desired contours are assigned) is post-processed to generate G-Code to drive a specific machine
- the result is typically a machine code file - but if I have the right machine (I don't) the code can be directly sent to the machine from the CAM application
Does that about define the process? If I'm missing something, please add it - I'm interested in learning as much as I can.
As for the quality of the DXF - when I used inkscape to convert my image (bitmap) to vectors there were of course a gazillion nodes to the outline. But they were very quickly and easily reduced to 20 or so simply by using a 'window' select of point and then deleting them. By overlaying the vector over the bitmap, filling the vector defined shape with a color contrasting the black of the bitmap shape, it was quite quick and easy to match the vector outline to the bitmap shape under it. Perhaps an inkscape plugin will do that for me or some of it - I am not going to add to many more 'pieces' into my puzzle yet until I have a better understanding of the steps involved.
And finally - your 'contours tip doc' you mention... I haven't searched this forum yet - but I will do as soon as I post this. Just in case I don't find it - can you somehow post a link or otherwise point me to it? I would like to read it as I'm guessing it will be helpful.
Thanks again for your help countgryguy. As I said - I have been frustrated by this application - and that may be what 'leaked out' in the first couple posts. But I'm pretty tenacious about making things work. And besides - I'm just too cheap to spend money and not get something for it... one of my many character flaws
Well - it's been a few weeks since I was able to sit down and focus on my CNC 'work'. Tonight I spent a lot of time (between sudden power outages and losing all my work - what a pain) working through my 'issues'. I imported my R12 DXF. And that brings up my first question...
When I draw - I tend to use a lot of layers for different things - I'll put my dimensions on one layer... I'll build some 'construction lines' on another and I'll possibly draw some shapes on a layer to represent external pieces I need to 'add' to final product (my cheesy way of doing 3D modeling). In this case - I had built out some cross-hairs to use for circle centers. These cross-hairs came in to DCAD. I know I can ignore them in the CAM step - but for purposes of learning, I wanted to delete them. But I couldn't select them... the only thing I finally figured out to do was to use the 'Select' tool, to grab the circle and the cross-hairs - then use the Shift key and click on the circle to de-select it - then delete the cross-hairs. It worked - but why can't I select just a line? What am I doing wrong?
So - on with the project... and just for reference, I did my drawing in LibreCAD and imported it as an R12 DXF to DCAD. My drawing has 3 small-diameter holes and then 4 larger (but not all the same size) holes distributed in no real pattern. I figured out that I could use the 'Point Pattern' function in the NC module to define my 3 mounting holes. But!! since my other 4 holes are different sizes and larger diameter than my end-mill bit... I suddenly realized that I could use the 'Area Clear' for those. And that creates my SECOND question...
What is the difference between 'Area Clear' and 'Pocket' in the DCAM module? The icons for the two would indicate that 'Area Clear' is an irregular shape while the icon for 'Pocket' is a circle - so I suspect that is typically used for a more simple (rectangle/circle) shape?
Bottom line today? I seem to be able to work my way through this integrated application (Integrated being CAD/CAM). I WILL say - it is more complex than the simple utilities I was using up to now. But assuming I can get my CNC machine to work reliably (meaning - I don't screw up and place a hold-down where I'm routing or use a tall hold down where the head bashes into it), I think some of the additional (complex) features of this CAM utility will make the end-use less 'interactive' with me.
Dolphin - you are returning to my good books (slowly). Andre - I have not sent you my drawing because I figure I'm going to 'save' my favors for more complex, troublesome issues. Meanwhile - I'm going to keep working through this simple project and learn what I can from the Help and online videos.
Hi and thank you so much for the documentation you're writing here. It sound a lot like what I had to just plain figure out w/ trial & error and other group posts. IMO your on-track and its more a process and 'new way of thinking' more than anything else. I'm absolutely swamped lately. Spring on 10acres of Farm w/ gear to prep. a full time IT job down 1 man and literally 12-14 hours lately. My apologies for not getting on this w/ ya.
Just real quick- The CAD new drawing, import pop up does have options for layers. Feel free to try saving as something other than R12 AutoCAD.... Maybe just to see. I would send a note to Dolphin or check the import feature doc set for specs and notes. The docs are pretty good if you take the time to really dig into them I think. In the world of instant 'googleness' I know I just want to send a note and get an instant reply - - But they are busy too. So I have done the docs thing like the old days <grin>.
The Circle centers made me laugh... Been there , done that exact thing. It's not an issue if you do NOT make them contours when you go into CAM. Remember there are two ways to make CAM contours. For VERY simple shaped- Just import into CAM. It can make your layers and shapes into contours but there is NO intelligence behind it really. If you take that same simple drawing into DCAD, and using the red button labled NC begin to craft your own contours known the functions behavior you wish to use.
I think this is an important part, and a concept I put into my TIP paper that I've been unable to locate here. I'm still looking and will search again today.
In short- I think you must know the DCAM functions, know what you want the machine to do, and then while in DCAD, setup your contours to support those operations. Once that is done you use the DCAM option up top from the "machining" pull down and select " Milling" This will Launch the DCAM tool and automagically pull in your CAD and contours. To cement this part home and I need to shove off - For your Circle centers.... They will NOT show up here if you take the DXF into DCAD and simply do not create contours out of them.
PS- When you use DCAM and go to create contours via the NC button it's a bit snarky and will make ya grimmace at times but it does work. Play with it. If you make a mistake, use the button called "NG Gallery" Just simply hit DLETE on something you do not like.
- The trick here is that as I was (and am) still very new. I learned that even after a few cuts and runs you will see a better or optimum way and you'll go back to DCAM and redo many of your contours (delete them and redo some new way), then go into the CAM via "Machining, Milling" and redo the CAM functions. LOL To me it was learning to be a CAD/CAD to machine cycles engineer. I've NEVER done any of this but my IT and software development skills really helped here. Hint: Very hard to program if you do not know the objects, methods, command, and their attributes and parameters. So you read and read those. Then you program w/ constructs like "IF THEN" ELSE. LOOP, (go around here in CAM) etc.
In short, if you see them in CAM, they are contours..... I wish I had time to dig up some dxfs and check all this- but, if you are importing into CAM and letting it make the contours- then you will see them in CAM and they are within your CAM functions visibility to act upon. But you really do not need to use them for any of the CAM functions if you do not wish too. They are essentially contours you will not use. Sometimes this is OK and sometimes this can/will be an issue when doing an advanced function. pulling in everything may mess up the planned machine process due to the function behavior and all the contours you have in there.
I will dig for the doc I said I would get. I think you're already past it's basic primer scope, but we're all learning here. Thanks again or keeping the dialog alive. The only way we will all get this is to listen and share here.
Final comment. On V12 - I sent in a note about some feature/functionality I felt was lacking on one of the functions. For V13, the exact things I wanted and sent them a note about made it into the product!!!! That was such a great addition for me on this product. They do listen! Very busy, YES but they are a solid group as far as I can tell.
Struggling with DXF import
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