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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_3301 View Post
    so is it down to 1 drive screwing up the parameters now?
    If so, it sounds like it's time to swap with another working drive in the panel.

    if the problem follows the drive, it probably has to be sent back.

    With my luck, the problem would go away for a couple months until I had forgotten about the problem.
    Yep, down to one drive.
    Good call on swapping its position. That will rule out the wiring one way of the other.
    I will do that now.



  2. #62
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    [QUOTE=matth;1569526]How does my earth point get a "zap" at power on? It's not the neutral bar. That would mean I had massive leakage current via the CPC and the RCD I have on this circuit would trip, which it never has.
    I have removed all low voltage earth returns from my main earth bond point and installed a earth busbar (separate from all 5v earths).
    However this is not common practice, please lookup earth bonding where the recommendations are to bring all system earths back to a central point, which is how my system was wired. Even with a DMM bob in place this would be no different, how do DMM protect against this?

    Please show me the specifications from DMM as to how my enable lines should be wired? What is the problem with tying them to ground until activation?

    What am I switching after the PSU's, the wiring goes from the PSU, into a busbar them through a Breaker then into a filtering cap then into the drives. At no point is it switched!

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    My machine didn't crash and the drive didn't have a fault, I started the machine and the X axis driver had forgotten it's settings, without knowing this (do you connect to every drive at every power on and double check it's internal settings?) I asked the machine to home.
    This twisted the gantry because the X axis wasn't driving properly whereas the A was. The A then faulted. After this I reset the system but didn't realise the gantry was now physically twisted.
    At no point would having the alarm outputs connected of changed what happened.
    That is a Drive Fault, If you had it wired correctly with the Alarm in place, it would not of been able to be moved

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Yes I have had some other issues with power wiring which have been sorted and as far as I can see are unrelated.
    You are not getting it, what kind of relay are you using to activate the enable to the Drive, this by it's self could Zap the drives does the relay have a snubber built in/or used, to stop spikes, wiring how you have for this is incorrect

    You will continue to have problems as long as you have it wire the way you have,

    I posted that you should be switching the power to the power supplies, for your on off of the Drives, you should not be switching the Drive Enable the way you are

    The best way for you to fix this problem is to install the Dmm Breakout Board as it should be

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Yes I have had some other issues with power wiring which have been sorted and as far as I can see are unrelated.
    Your wiring is all related to the problems you are having with there system, many 1,000's of Drives are in service, with no problems

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    The fact is the original fault was explained to me by DMM as a software issue and one of the new drives is acting just the same.
    They play nice with the customer, They would not of known it was a software problem, so said something that was incorrect, they replaced your Drives, the new Drives worked correct, just as the first set of Drives had, until something happened, & now you have the same problem, give it some time & the other Drives will have the same problem too, unless you correct your wiring before this happens, the other Drives will suffer as well

    Mactec54


  3. #63
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Yep, down to one drive.
    Good call on swapping its position. That will rule out the wiring one way of the other.
    I will do that now.
    Yes but you could damage another Drive in the process, I said to do this before with the first set of drives, But once the Drive is damaged it is not going to change by moving it

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Matt can you clarify the relay and enable input I am hearing about?

    The dyn2 powers the relay coil? or something else does, and the relay contacts send the enable input to the drive?



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    It was not a fault and the alarm output would not of stopped it.
    The problem was the gantry got twisted by the settings of the A and X drivers being different on start-up, this would of happened with or without the Alarm output being wired or with the DDM breakout board. The Y axis didn't fault until after it had twisted the Gantry and at that point the damage was done, alarm or no alarm. Granted, running the machine after this (because I didn't realise the gantry had been twisted) caused the over heat problem but again neither drive faulted so again the alarm output would not of changed the situation.
    Would it be good to have the alarm outputs hooked up? Of course. Is that the cause of the issues I'm seeing? Not a chance in hell.

    The enable line runs through a relay contact to ground, as far as I know the DYN2 driver input is not a high inductance load and at 5v should not cause any back EMF on switching.
    The DDM board categorically does not switch the power to the Drivers when it enables or disables them (see schematic below). If the drivers couldn't cope with their enable input being switched through a relay without losing settings I think there'd be a lot more problems out there. There is no way that I should be switching the drives on and off to enable/disable them! Why would they include an enable line to free the motor if they expected you to kill the power supply!

    If what you are saying about DMM replacing my drives without asking any questions is "playing nice" I think I am in trouble. I didn't demand replacements, I just informed them of the issues I was having. If as you say the drives are so sensitive to the wiring then I would hope DDM would of pointed this out rather then send me new drives knowing that the problem would not be cured. That is idiotic!

    I get the feeling from your posts that you are trying to defend DMM and highlight the issue as being my end (which it may well be).
    But you continually quote specifications that you can not refer me to and continually say the DMM BOB will cure all ills.
    Well I took a lot of time studying the DMB4250-8B schematics and I see nothing that I am doing substantially differently that would be causing an issue.

    If these drives are so delicate that they can not be interfaced by anything other than the DMM BOB then we really have a problem.

    Please also remember that (discounting the issues I was seeing due to the fuses) I had two drives losing settings before, the Y and A. Now I have replaced the drivers I only have one causing an issue, X. If this was a wiring problem it would either affect all the drives or the ones using the same wiring as the first lot.

    I'm not attacking DMM, the service has been good up to this point and the drives when working perform great.
    But I need this issue sorted and if there are specifications on the wiring that I need to conform to then those need to be supplied and I will follow them (and saying "that's not how the DMM board does it" is not a specification).

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-dmmbob-jpg



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_3301 View Post
    Matt can you clarify the relay and enable input I am hearing about?

    The dyn2 powers the relay coil? or something else does, and the relay contacts send the enable input to the drive?
    The relay is on my BOB and is driven by a pin out from the ESS. I have taken the enable lines from the DYN2 drivers and tied them through this NC relay contact to ground thereby disabling the drivers until Mach3 opens the relay.

    In no way are the DYN2 drives powering the relay or connected to it's coil in any way.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Can you remove all non-essential wiring from the dmm drive for testing purposes?

    Just DC power in, and step direction inputs.
    The drive defaults to enabled I think?

    save your settings, and run it around a while, maybe power on and off a few times.
    Then check if your settings are corrupted.

    Maybe that can show if the problem is the drive or the wiring.



  8. #68
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    It is very clear on the drawing you just posted, the Ground is floating not taken to Earth Ground as you have it, a snippet from the above drawing

    This is another reason why it's a good idea to use there Breakout Board, & work around it's shortcomings, it will save any of these problems

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-dmm-board-grounds-png   Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-dc-grounding-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    I did change all the low voltage grounds over to a new ground busbar which is not connected to chassis / ac line earth this morning.
    I thought after following your advice on changing the 48v grounds that I should change these as well.

    It's had about half a dozen power cycles since with no problem but I will see what it does tomorrow.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    The Drive's may already have some damage, so don't count on it not doing the same thing again

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    The X axis driver had changed the Speed gain on startup this morning. All the other drives have been ok and I have not seen the issue.

    If this issue isn't software (as DMM have said) then I could swap this drive with one if the two older drives that weren't showing the issue.
    If it is software then I need the X axis driver swapped out.

    Still haven't heard anything from DMM.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    You should put to rest the software issue, because it has never been the problem, the Grounding Practice you used, Damaged the electronics is what has been the issue

    As I have said in other posts, the Drive is damaged, you should change it for one of the original Drives that did not have a problem before, you may have got lucky with the other drives in the new set,as they to could have some damage also, nobody can see how you have everything wired, you may still have other problems as well, You have no EMI protection, ( normal practice ) in place this to can damage sensitive electronics, the worst part you did was to Connect Earth Ground the electronic circuits

    I hope other people that read these Posts, lean by this experience, you must never connect,Logic / Digital / Analog or any electronic circuits, to Earth Ground, they must always use an Isolated Common Ground

    Sending these connections to Earth Ground, will damage whatever it is attached to

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    The only reason I bring up the software issue is because that is the only thing DMM have told me.
    Besides sending replacement drives out DMM haven't provided any technical support whereas you have and seem to be the unofficial technical support team (or official I don't really know).
    Now I'm not saying that DMM should be fault finding people's wiring but there products more and more are being aimed at the hobby market. However, there is really no documentation with the drives to define the correct wiring which the drives clearly need.
    It's worth pointing out that unlike a lot of other units out there the Dyn2 drives have no opto isolation built in.

    The new Dyn2 version 2 drives do now have fully isolated I/O and seem much more "industry standard".

    I agree that swapping one of the older drives back into the system will probably be the easiest way forward, I just don't want to do that and then hear from DMM that there defiantly is a software issue with the older drives.

    I hope you can appreciate my position on this. The official line is there is a software issue and your line is that there isn't.
    I've asked before, how are you affiliated with DMM? Are your views and opinions the official company line?



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Still seeing an issue with the X axis driver today.
    Another email sent to DMM:

    As per emails below I need to know what I should be doing with the current driver that is showing memory loss problems.

    After having working with Mactec on the CNCzone forum I have change both my 48v and 5v earthing scheme. However the driver on my X axis is still showing the problem.
    The drive will randomly lose settings primarily on the first start-up of the day.
    The driver this morning had changed it’s “on position range” from 127 to 5, the day before the speed gain setting had been modified.

    Mactec insists that there never was a software problem and that these issues have been caused by my ground wiring.
    If this is the case then I can swap one the of the original drivers that was not showing the issue with my current X axis driver and retest. If all is well then I can send back the 3 older drivers and the one replacement driver.

    If however there is a software issue then the replacement driver is showing the same symptoms and I need your input on how to move forward with getting this resolved.

    This is now the forth email I have sent, please can you respond?




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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    You seem to be in Denial, of any Wrongdoing on your part, with having this attitude you will not resolve anything, Your Wiring Was Bad, that's what Caused all of these Problems, & you want Dmm to Fix it, ( Have you returned the Damaged Drives )

    All of the Drives that you have, ( 8 ) I have already said, they may all have some damage from being wired the way you had them, You may have got lucky, with the Drives that are not showing any Faults

    You may have other wiring in your system that is also not correct, nobody can see this, only you know what you have done, the main thing is Hopefully the Servo Drive part of the wiring has now been Corrected

    I also already said, once damaged how ever slight, the Drives can not fix themselves, & will keep doing the same thing or similar, which is what is happening, ( Can show as a different fault every time, it is all related to the same thing )

    I also said to change the faulty Drive with one of the old Drives that was not showing any of these faults, & hope that it is not affected or damaged in some way, all ( 8 ) Drives may have some damage, & could Fault at anytime, because of Damage that may have occurred, from the Wiring

    My information on the Software came from the Owner of the Company who is the Designer & Software Program Writer

    As far as opto isolation, of there Drives, that was not necessary as this was taken care of with their Breakout Board, There are many users that have used a different Breakout Board, But have never done anything like what you did, with your wiring

    Dmm may not be able to reply to your emails as they are away from the office, I'm sure once they see your email or are able to reply they will

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    How is this denial:?

    "Mactec insists that there never was a software problem and that these issues have been caused by my ground wiring.
    If this is the case then I can swap one the of the original drivers that was not showing the issue with my current X axis driver and retest. If all is well then I can send back the 3 older drivers and the one replacement driver."



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    My information on the Software came from the Owner of the Company who is the Designer & Software Program Writer
    Who is this guy then:?

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-capture-jpg



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Let me ask for the third time.

    Do you work for or officially represent DMM?

    If so then I can take your suggestions as the proper course of action.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Let me ask for the third time.

    Do you work for or officially represent DMM?

    If so then I can take your suggestions as the proper course of action.
    I told you this before, do I officially represent Dmm, Yes I do, & have done so for many years

    The top of the Email tells you where it came from, he knows better than this, I'm still not sure why he would say such a thing, I will ask him about it when he returns, which won't be for some time

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    How is this denial:?

    "Mactec insists that there never was a software problem and that these issues have been caused by my ground wiring.
    If this is the case then I can swap one the of the original drivers that was not showing the issue with my current X axis driver and retest. If all is well then I can send back the 3 older drivers and the one replacement driver."
    You are not accepting the fact that you screwed up with your wiring

    This is what I have been telling you to do, If the original Drive did not have a Problem then why did you change it out, I'm not saying the same thing could not happen, obvious that Drive that has the fault now, took the biggest hit

    Any of them could fail at anytime, we do not know how much damage was done to any of the Drives, because of how you had it wired, they have all been exposed to the same wiring

    You should only send back the Drives that have Damage, & keep the Drives that don't show a fault/Damage

    Go through the Wiring to the Drive that has the Fault now, as you still may have something wired incorrect

    Mactec54


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Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings