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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Made the change to the 48v ground wiring. I will run the machine through a number of power cycles and report the results.

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg



  2. #22
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Bringing all grounds / earths / 0v back to a common point is best practice to avoid ground loops and eddy currents?
    You had created a Ground loop by Wiring the way it was, the Power Supplies are Grounded at the AC input, check it with a meter to the body of the Power Supplies, you could take all the Drives out the way it was wired

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Just been testing, ran a peck drilling cycle to put some clamping holes in my sacrificial table.
    About 13 mins in the Z drive went into over current.

    The drill cycle is only using a 4mm drill with 0.5mm peck and 300mm/min feed.

    I've seen the Z go over current a number of times before, mostly straight away on power up. I'd put this down to the software problem but this is the new driver.
    I can only presume that this is a problem with my settings.
    The Z motor is 400w and is direct driving a 5mm ballscrew, the z cartridge assemble is very smooth with no binding (it can easily be wound up with my finger tips).

    Can you see any issues with my settings? FYI this is running from an Ethernet Smoothstepper.

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg



  4. #24
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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Just been testing, ran a peck drilling cycle to put some clamping holes in my sacrificial table.
    About 13 mins in the Z drive went into over current.

    The drill cycle is only using a 4mm drill with 0.5mm peck and 300mm/min feed.

    I've seen the Z go over current a number of times before, mostly straight away on power up. I'd put this down to the software problem but this is the new driver.
    I can only presume that this is a problem with my settings.
    The Z motor is 400w and is direct driving a 5mm ballscrew, the z cartridge assemble is very smooth with no binding (it can easily be wound up with my finger tips).

    Can you see any issues with my settings? FYI this is running from an Ethernet Smoothstepper.
    It does not matter whether you run from a smooth stepper or not

    Try the Dmm settings at first row 65-28-4 & you have to do the drive ID 0=X axes 1=Y axes Z=2

    As for Mach 4000mm/sec try that at 100 to start

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It does not matter whether you run from a smooth stepper or not

    Try the Dmm settings at first row 65-28-4 & you have to do the drive ID 0=X axes 1=Y axes Z=2

    As for Mach 4000mm/sec try that at 100 to start
    I'll give those gains a try, that's closer to the x and a drivers. I thought the ID only had to be set if you ate using an RS485 network between the drives?
    Cheers for the info.

    Is it normal to see the drive fault with over current if the settings are out of whack?



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    I'll give those gains a try, that's closer to the x and a drivers. I thought the ID only had to be set if you ate using an RS485 network between the drives?
    Cheers for the info.

    Is it normal to see the drive fault with over current if the settings are out of whack?
    Yes mostly the (2) settings in Mach Velocity & acceleration, the Drive does not care to much were you have it set, the Velocity setting is usually the one that will trip the drives so you may have that just a little high, play with that number until it does not trip anymore

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Changed the settings as you suggested Mactec.
    I didn't set accel to 100 though as that would mean over 1.5 seconds to come up to speed. I did drop it though to 3000. The Y is happy at 4000. The velocity is at 10M/min which is only 2000RPM.

    I then ran a tool setting macro and the drive tripped again, this time on the way down probing for tool height, this is at no more that 100mm/min so is very slow and not really putting any load on the motor.

    The drive tripped this time with lost phase.

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Changed the settings as you suggested Mactec.
    I didn't set accel to 100 though as that would mean over 1.5 seconds to come up to speed. I did drop it though to 3000. The Y is happy at 4000. The velocity is at 10M/min which is only 2000RPM.

    I then ran a tool setting macro and the drive tripped again, this time on the way down probing for tool height, this is at no more that 100mm/min so is very slow and not really putting any load on the motor.

    The drive tripped this time with lost phase.

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-image-jpg
    Your Y axes does not have the loading that you have on the Z axes, so you can't compare the settings, your load on the Z axes may be to high for a 1:1 drive 100 was just a safe starting number 100mm/per sec, so you were trying move the Z axes at 4,000mm/sec that's over 1 metre per/sec, it's not going to happen, you would need a bigger motor to move the Z axes at that speed, or gear it down 2:1 will do the same thing, & then I doubt that you could reach that speed

    You may have to also play with the Drive setting I gave you as well, they are just a rough guide as it was set at the default numbers, which would of not been suitable for your machine
    Lost Phase is over voltage/amp/speed can be any one of these things that cause this, which can be settings, or the motor trying to do more work than it is designed to do, you may also be getting EMF from the spindle if it is not correctly shielded

    Set the Velocity in Mach 3 at 750 & see if it still trips you have it at 1000

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Your Y axes does not have the loading that you have on the Z axes, so you can't compare the settings, your load on the Z axes may be to high for a 1:1 drive 100 was just a safe starting number 100mm/per sec, so you were trying move the Z axes at 4,000mm/sec that's over 1 metre per/sec, it's not going to happen, you would need a bigger motor to move the Z axes at that speed, or gear it down 2:1 will do the same thing, & then I doubt that you could reach that speed

    You may have to also play with the Drive setting I gave you as well, they are just a rough guide as it was set at the default numbers, which would of not been suitable for your machine
    Lost Phase is over voltage/amp/speed can be any one of these things that cause this, which can be settings, or the motor trying to do more work than it is designed to do, you may also be getting EMF from the spindle if it is not correctly shielded

    Set the Velocity in Mach 3 at 750 & see if it still trips you have it at 1000
    A setting of 4000 in the acceleration box is not asking the axis to move at 4 metres per second, it's telling the axis to accelerate at that speed. The axis will not go faster than it's maximum velocity setting, in my case 10metres per minute or 166mm per second. That means the axis will be ramped up to full speed in 41 milliseconds.

    My X axis will happily run at 10M/min with 3000mm/sec/sec acceleration (I have it limited to 8M/min due to screw whip), my Y axis runs at 15M/min with 4000mm/sec/sec acceleration and both are a hell of a lot heavier that my Z axis.

    I can't see that I am maxing the drive out at 10M/min and 3000mm/sec/sec.

    I have run a 4 hour long 3d milling jobs with the older drives with these settings on the Z with no problem.

    But I have seen the drive fault on initial startup, now it is doing it more regularly and at very slow speeds.
    I can't see the speed and acceleration setting in Mach causing this issue as the axis was only moving at about 100mm/min that's about 4 IPM in old money!

    This video show you the Z axis working plenty fast enough without trouble a couple of weeks ago with the old drives.
    Now it can't lower the axis at 4UPM without losing phase!:





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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    A setting of 4000 in the acceleration box is not asking the axis to move at 4 metres per second, it's telling the axis to accelerate at that speed. The axis will not go faster than it's maximum velocity
    Nobody said it was 4m per second, it is trying to move it at 4000mm per sec that is a big difference, Your Y axes has almost no loading on the motor, compared to the Z axes with a lifting load up & down, this is much harder to do then just pushing from side to side, if you think it is the drive then put the old drive back in, it may, also work now that the wiring is correct, unless it has damage

    First start the settings with low numbers, & just increase, until you get the drive needing a reset

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    4M and 4000mm per second is exactly the same.

    The maximum speed I am asking the axis to move at is 166mm/sec or 10M/min or 2000RPM on the motor.
    My worry is that I'm not seeing the drive fault on the rapid moves, rather when it is either holding or creeping along.

    I don't think it's the drive, I agree that it's probably the settings but I just can't make sense of it. My worry is that it's the motor or encoder.

    P.s. Not trying to argue, just trying to clear any confusion.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Why don't you try moving your acceleration down to 100 or even 500? It can't hurt to try it.

    Ben



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    4M and 4000mm per second is exactly the same.

    The maximum speed I am asking the axis to move at is 166mm/sec or 10M/min or 2000RPM on the motor.
    My worry is that I'm not seeing the drive fault on the rapid moves, rather when it is either holding or creeping along.

    I don't think it's the drive, I agree that it's probably the settings but I just can't make sense of it. My worry is that it's the motor or encoder.
    My meaning for the 4000 was that is what you have in the setting, you don't have 4M in the setting, of cause when writing it, they are the same, I should of seen what you meant

    So the rapids are good, that is very strange, if the rapid is good then the slow speed should be fine

    Do you still have the Dmm test setup cables still plugged in to the drive, these need to be removed, they can't remain plugged in

    Swap one of the other drives, & try it, to see if it is the same,problem, I would look at wiring from Breakout Board to the Drive as well, any loose pin connections, do you have Grounding on all your machine moving parts X Y & Z

    Don't forget the smooth stepper settings, they are best left as there default

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Chees guys, I will spend some time doing some careful testing with different feeds and speeds tomorrow.
    I will also go over the signal wiring.

    You raise a good point Mactec, the serial cable is still plugged into the drive, but I think I only plugged it in after the drive had already faulted.
    I will remove it for my testing and report back.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-uploadfromtaptalk1412123822937-jpg



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    Just did some tests with your settings, the test setup I was using has the same 400w motor as you are using, but it was connected at 2:1 to a Mill, which has much more load than your machine, so your setting may need to be different to what I used without having to reset

    Steps @ 400

    Velocity was up to 8000

    Acceleration was best around 1000

    I think you will find your other Axes settings are not correct as well

    The easiest way is to start with a low Acceleration & get the Velocity up to it's max before you get a reset this setting is for the max RPM of the motor, then just up the acceleration until it also goes into reset

    Your settings are to high for acceleration & your Velocity setting are to low, with the low velocity setting you are not reaching the motor max RPM

    - - - Updated - - -

    matth

    Just did some tests with your settings, the test setup I was using has the same 400w motor as you are using, but it was connected at 2:1 to a Mill, which has much more load than your machine, so your setting may need to be different to what I used without having to reset

    Steps @ 400

    Velocity was up to 8000

    Acceleration was best around 1000

    I think you will find your other Axes settings are not correct as well

    The easiest way is to start with a low Acceleration & get the Velocity up to it's max before you get a reset this setting is for the max RPM of the motor, then just up the acceleration until it also goes into reset

    Your settings are to high for acceleration & your Velocity setting are to low, with the low velocity setting you are not reaching the motor max RPM

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    I have found the problem, nothing to do with drive gain settings or Mach 3 settings.

    It was the fuse holders, the Z axis was getting worse, this morning is shutdown completely leading me to check power etc.
    The fuse for the Z had been arcing in its holder, the contact between the fuse and the holder kept getting worse until it disconnected the power completely.
    So my problem with the replacement Y drive was the fuses and it seems that the intermittent problem I had with the Z going Overcurrent was the fuse holder as well.

    I have now pulled all these holders out and replaced them with breakers that have a suitable DC voltage and current rating.

    I ran the machine through about 2 hours of rapid moves this afternoon and I have now been running a peck drilling cycle for the last hour with no issues what so ever.

    The settings I am running in Mach3 are:

    Z: 10000 Vel, 4000 Accel
    Y: 15000 Vel, 4000 Accel
    X: 8000 Vel, 3000 Accel

    I have derated the speed of the z as 600IPM is a bit mad on a 5" axis and I derated the X because at higher RPM's I was getting screw whip and the axis is quite heavy.
    The z will run fine at 15M/min and I'm sure that if it wasn't for the screws the X would too.
    As you said Mactec I did start with low setting and then work up from there to get to these values (about 6 weeks ago before I ran into the software issue).

    I presume that the acceleration value's are fine because my machine is fairly light weight and has good quality linear rails.



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    Old fuse holder showing arcing damage:
    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-2014-10-01-13-32-53-jpg

    New breakers in place:
    Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings-2014-10-01-13-33-04-jpg

    Short vid of the Z axis after the fix:




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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    I remember reading that Mach sometimes has issues if the axis acceleration values are not the same. However I can't find a reference to back that up.

    Also I am not sure that having your Y velocity so high compared to X buys you anything since so many XY moves are interpolated. I am not sure that it is wrong but it just doesn't look right.

    I am glad you got the fuse issue sorted out!

    bob

    - - - Updated - - -

    I remember reading that Mach sometimes has issues if the axis acceleration values are not the same. However I can't find a reference to back that up.

    Also I am not sure that having your Y velocity so high compared to X buys you anything since so many XY moves are interpolated. I am not sure that it is wrong but it just doesn't look right.

    I am glad you got the fuse issue sorted out!

    bob



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    Default Re: Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

    matth

    Thats good you found something, you did not say anything before that you had started low with your settings, & built up to were you were at, as rowbare has said having the acceleration set so high does not achieve anything, you loose smoothness, the higher you go up with the acceleration, because Z & Y axes, are not doing very much work, if your high settings work for you, it is your machine & you can set it to what you are happy with

    Having the fuse holders doing what they were, would of also, been very hard on the Servo Drives, it just show how good they really are

    Rowbare his system is running a Smooth Stepper so does not really have to worry to much about Mach 3

    With his Dmm System he can set everything to the max, that his Drives can handle without having a reset, he can then adjust to suit what his machine can handle

    Mactec54


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Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings

Dyn2 losing EEPROM settings