Researching new build

[Torontocnc]

Good day and happy Easter/Passover!

I am starting to research a new build and hoping I can get some links and suggestions from the community.

Background and needs:
- Experienced cabinetmaker
- I work in a shop that already has a CNC. This would be a supplementary machine. Sort of a half hobby build fun project for me in my spare time while allowing the shop to do engravings and odd one off pieces.

- Funding from my shops end TBD and I am trying to keep my end low.
- MDF and ply is free due to whats lying around, metals and such would need to be purchased.
- Looking to machine wood, MDF, and ply only. MAYBE one day plastics of some sort, but unlikely. Only metal that might be aluminum laminate on MDF core, so not really an issue and highly unlikely to be needed.

- The space available is about 2.25M by 2.5M
- The joes 2006 is looking good as MDF is available, and the parts could be cut out on our big cnc. Also its proven, well discussed, and large enough.
- I do not think we have the space or funding for a 4x4 hybrid nor a real need for such production or large sizes. I have read many a time that people always wished they built bigger, but we don't need that. We already have the capacity, this is more for small things and whatever I get an inkling to do in spare time.
- I do not see a lot of talk or joy about the Solsyvas, are they fine designs?

- What would be quite useful and something that would almost be required would be a 4th axis rotary. Doing some spindles for legs and such for custom projects would save a bit of time on our lathes.
- The only joes 2006 I could find with a rotary axis was that the guy extended his Y-axis and raised up a lathe beside the machine. I don't have the space or a free lathe for that. Also I would like to do it with an indexer as opposed to a free running lathe.
- So I am thinking I am going to have to design something from scratch. Something maybe similar to a Sosylva. High sides with the gantry riding on the top, with a removable indexer or removable bottom.
- Extras like a (forget the name) that controls the speed of a 3.25 hp router TBD later. Dust/chip collection should be available from the shops system.

Questions:
- Any idea how many amps on a standard 110v wall socket to run a regular router, the electronics, and computer with a screen(LCD)?
- If I need to have a dual driven X-axis with the Y and Z plus an indexer, I would need a 5 axis system right? If so is it possible to use a Gecko G540 plus a 201X or 250 single drive to a second printer port? HobbyCNC is also a product I would consider. Any other ideas on this subject?
- Of course would be simplest to have a single driven X-axis. Is it okay on a machine that would be about 2-3 feet wide to have that axis driven on one side only? Would it mater if it is R&P or screw?
- Can you R&P on a MDF frame? and how bad is backlash with a R&P? Since this would be more carvings it needs to be accurate, but not building a space shuttle accurate.
- Is it realistic to have a detachable indexer that can bolted to the table and removed as necessary?
- Cost for a Joes is about 1500-2500, and a hybrid is 3500-5000? Sosylva is about?

Thanks in advance! Links are always appreciated.

[louieatienza]

My first machine was a Solsylva, and it served me well. I did eventually upgrade my system, but I did retain some of the comcepts, like the raised rail design, dual X leadscrews (run with timing belt and pulleys).

The upside is that it's easier to make a ridgid gantry when the rails are raised. The machine can also be placed over large workpieces, or even a floor. A removable tabletop could be a great way to implement a rotary axis.
The downside is loading parts over the rails. But almost all the cuts are square and it's pretty easy to substitute better parts like leadscrews and such.

The joes2006 does look nicer and has a large following. Having a CNC to cut it is a plus. The carriage assembly and bearing concepts are similar to solsylva. The downsides are the singular leadscrew on the X, and the single-ply gantry uprights. I've seen a lot of them where the gantry was reinforced after the fact.

Solsylva is made of solid wood. joes usually of MDF. I prefer wood myself, and maybe you could use some wood parts on a joes...

If you go to the gallery page on the solsylva site, my machine is the bottom most on the page, with a link to it moving... You could also check my youtube channel for more vids of my machine and the build thread here on the cnc zone.

[OCNC]

- Any idea how many amps on a standard 110v wall socket to run a regular router, the electronics, and computer with a screen(LCD)?

I run an LCD monitor, a computer, a SmoothStepper, 3 Gecko 201's, a 24V-10 amp power supply, three computer fans to cool the Gecko's and a PC 690 router all on the same 15amp 120v outlet. No problems.

- If I need to have a dual driven X-axis with the Y and Z plus an indexer, I would need a 5 axis system right? If so is it possible to use a Gecko G540 plus a 201X or 250 single drive to a second printer port? HobbyCNC is also a product I would consider. Any other ideas on this subject?

Technically I think you would call this a 4 axis setup but you would need five drives. What you describe should work.

- Of course would be simplest to have a single driven X-axis. Is it okay on a machine that would be about 2-3 feet wide to have that axis driven on one side only? Would it mater if it is R&P or screw?

It will depend on how smooth running and rigid your gantry is. It should be do-able.

Chris

[louieatienza]

It's usually recommended for DOY build to use dual drive wider than 24". Of course a lot will depend on your abilities. There are some commerical machines like Biesse Rover that have all the mechanicals on one side, cantilevered, but that would be tough to implement for DIY.

I would also not recommend running everything through one outlet or even one circuit for that matter, unless you know exactly that the wires inside the walls are capable of it. Even then, trying to pull over 20A through a 15A socket is a recipe for fire; at the very least you'll melt your outlet. You may never pull that much, but if your router and steppers are running at peak load you can run into issues. JUst saying, better safe than sorry.

With a breakout board you could run your 5 axes, Mach3 can do 6. I believe you can even use servo for the other axis as long as the driver accepts step and direction signals.

[ger21]

Even then, trying to pull over 20A through a 15A socket is a recipe for fire; at the very least you'll melt your outlet.

That's why you have fuses and/or circuit breakers. If what you say is true, you'd see far more house fires.
Wost case when trying to tun too many things from one outlet would be a tripped breaker.

Having said that, you probably need 2 circuits.

[DonFrambach]

...
Questions:
- Any idea how many amps on a standard 110v wall socket to run a regular router, the electronics, and computer with a screen(LCD)?

I found a "Kill a watt" meter to be extremely helpful to me as I was setting up my small router. For example, I found that my shop vac was drawing 11 amps! It's now on a separate circuit even though my G540 can turn it on an off through Mach 3. (BTW, my small router with a G540, NEMA 23 steppers, Kress spindle, old Dell computer, and an LCD monitor uses about 450 watts.)

Here's a link for the meter I used: "http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333916417&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: P3 International P4400 Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor: Home Improvement

[Torontocnc]

Thanks for help so far guy!

Did a quick sketch this afternoon before reading responses. I went with a fixed gantry design. The long base is looking clunky but I guess that would be expected. I went with the really over built Z to try to deal with deflection. I would ideally like to be able to put 8 inch square blocks on the indexer. But that would mean I would need about 11-12 inches of space for it to spin around completely. That would probably be to long I would think. Also with my design I could not remove the table because I would have the threaded rod underneath it. If I had a removable table then the Z would only have to make it half way. Basically I don't like what I came up with :P

I think I am going to go more with a Solsylva idea. With a 2ft cutting area, the gantry would only need to be 2.5-2.75ft long, hopefully that could be driven from a single side. Thought the cost of having to buy one more drive and a breakout board that could handle 5 drives would probably just be easier.

Saw this company for the first time today: Building the KRMx01 CNC
These look fairly solid and probably could be modified to me needs. Anybody seen or build one of these?


PS all the material in my sketchup is MDF. I planned to make square lengths with ribs dadoed in through out the length. Almost mini torsion boxes maybe?

[RossMosh]

Wood base + Joe's Hybrid or CNCRouterParts 4x4 kit is probably the best way to go. There are ways to make cost effective changes. Example, the CNCRouterParts machine uses 1530 extrusion as a base for the spoil board. There is no reason you have to use extrusion. Something like Superstrut/Unistrut will work as well if not better. You can also buy and drill your own CRS to save money.

Given what you have available, I'd go with a Joe's CNC probably.

[louieatienza]

Even then, trying to pull over 20A through a 15A socket is a recipe for fire; at the very least you'll melt your outlet.

That's why you have fuses and/or circuit breakers. If what you say is true, you'd see far more house fires.
Wost case when trying to tun too many things from one outlet would be a tripped breaker.

Having said that, you probably need 2 circuits.

There are hundreds of house fires every year from people daisychaining Christmas lights. I've melted an outlet before.

Having your computer/CNC shut down from a tripped breaker may not be a good thing either. It's also not like we test the breakers in our house panel, or can even trust the wires in the wall unless we put them there ourselves.

Point is: Don't rely on your circuit breaker to trip, and even if it did, it might not be good for your computer (and possibly the drives on your CNC)

[Torontocnc]

Question about the drivers as I may need 5 axis effectively. Would it be best to buy a G540 and a second G250 and some sort of breakout board for the second unit? Or 5 G250s and a breakout board for 5 axis(where to get a breakout board?). Or try to find a 5 axis system?

Any opinions on hobbycnc(I have no problem soldering and it is cheaper) or something off of PMinMO.com ?

[Torontocnc]

So I have spent some time trying to design from scratch, and something better I liked. In the end I was building a monster of a machine with a very small cutting area. One day I may revisit what I was working on.

I decided to take the advice of the majority and just build a Joe cnc 2006. The problem with it is, is that I want an indexer that can handle 4-6 in. So I started playing with the solidworks files and that led to a few not useful designs. This is what I finally think may work. I need to finish it of course but it hopefully the concept comes through.

I stripped out the bed. I plan to have a removable torsion box( to be designed) that will bolt to the sides for normal use. Then where the second motor is on the front have that pass through to a jawed chuck for 4th axis. The dead end I have an idea for, but before I start drawing, I wanted ideas or feedback that this is a smart move.

Does the drive have to be geared to the motor? can I just hook up a lovejoy to a shaft to a chuck?

also any links to good pics or a build log of a 4th axis?

PS why is there so many slots in the joe cnc 2006? to lighted the frame?