Revisiting Router Bits...

[Mountaincraft]

I need to get some bits and money is tight on this round..

I'm looking at Kodiak Cutting Tools carbide end mills.. They're pretty affordable... a carbide 3/8" x 1" LOC is under $12... they also have 1/8" ball ends for under $6 and 3/16" ball ends for under $8

Anyone have any experience with these company's products?
For $30-50 I could get a nice little starter collection of bits...
I need a compression bit, but buying an amana would kill my entire bit budget for one bit, and buying an osrund would not allow me to get a 60 degree engraver either...

Hoping to get a 60 degree insert bit, a ball end bit and a 3/8" mortising bit (to cut and dado cabinet parts in plywood and MDF) or maybe more for around $100...

I can buy more bits in a month or two... so I'm wondering if these bits would be worth it as an interim purchase till I can get an amana compression and better ball ends..

Anyways, these prices are almost too good to be true, especially for made in USA.. and I'd like some input if anyone has any experience with them......

[Mountaincraft]

Also, Kodiak doesn't sell V bits, and tools today's are kinda expensive.. Local Big Box stores only sell 90 degree V bits..

Any less expensive sources for 30 or 60 degree V bits that would work for engraving and V carving work for a month or two while I get the funds together for higher quality stuff?

I'm trying to focus on getting the table finished and buying an S-PID this month if possible.. but I also need to start making stuff and getting it out there to generate a little cash... So I need s few bits too..

It's tough trying to balance all this against the clock..

[Treischl]

I often wonder myself if 3 bits that cost less in total than one expensive bit makes more sense. Yup, the pricey one probably has finer grade carbide. You may get a few more resharpenings too.

Then reality sets in. Do we always need the finest grade carbide? As for resharpening, there is a mixed bag if ever there was one. If you are doing really precise work, those undersize bits can cause fits. I generally only resharpen the V tools since they do not become "undersize" for all practical purposes. So I buy good ones and get them sharpened for $6.

The other thing I do is get my "hogging" bits resharpened.

You will probably hear that expensive bits stay sharper longer. My question has always been is that difference long enoigh to justify the price? I really wonder about that.

I just took a look at the site. I am going to give them a try when I need some cutters. My comment is that the high helixes may give you trouble in plywood. I don't cut much plywood on the cnc.

[ger21]

Generally, if they're labeled End Mills, they're designed for cutting metals. If they're labeled Router Bits, they're designed for cutting wood. The cutting edge geometry can be very different. Router Bits are generally designed to cut at much higher feedrates.

Having said that, a lot of people use end mills for wood. Since they are much cheaper, it's worth a try to see how they work for you.

Be aware that most router bits have either 1/4" or 1/2" shanks, while end mills shanks are usually the same as the cutting diameter, which means they probably won't fit your router.

As for 1/8" ballnose endmills, I buy them on Ebay for $5, and get excellent results with them. You can get them for as little as $2 if you get them from China.

You might want to try here for cheaper V bits. Never used them myself, though.

[Mountaincraft]

What's the downside of using a down spiral bit? I found a good deal on some carbide 2 flute 3/8" down spirals with 1/2" shanks... I initially need them for cutting profiles and 3/4" w x 3/8" d dados in furniture grade plywood for cabinet boxes.. but I will also need them for 3/4" MDF...

Is the fact that they are down spirals going to cause problems.. I'm thinking they will give cleaner edges on top (which will be the visible side)... but I'm also thinking they might cause problems with debris in the kerf... Although, my vacuum system and dust shoe seems to be very good at clearing out most of that stuff...

What do you think.. Should I pull the trigger?

If worse comes to worse I can use my 3/16" and 1/4" upspirals for the profiles.. But I'm thinking I can push deeper, harder, and faster with a larger bit...

[louieatienza]

What's the downside of using a down spiral bit? I found a good deal on some carbide 2 flute 3/8" down spirals with 1/2" shanks... I initially need them for cutting profiles and 3/4" w x 3/8" d dados in furniture grade plywood for cabinet boxes.. but I will also need them for 3/4" MDF...

Is the fact that they are down spirals going to cause problems.. I'm thinking they will give cleaner edges on top (which will be the visible side)... but I'm also thinking they might cause problems with debris in the kerf... Although, my vacuum system and dust shoe seems to be very good at clearing out most of that stuff...

What do you think.. Should I pull the trigger?

If worse comes to worse I can use my 3/16" and 1/4" upspirals for the profiles.. But I'm thinking I can push deeper, harder, and faster with a larger bit...

I use some downcut spirals, but specifically for profile cutting mainly thiner material that I cannot hold down easily everywhere. For most profile and pocketing operations in wood I use compression spirals, which seem to work better for me, especially when I have to do through cuts in laminated material; though I use them on solid wood as well. Heck I use a lot of 2-flute straight bits for slotting and profiling, with good results.

Kodiak's tools are more for metal work, and I can attest to their quality and service. I haven't tried them on wood, but I would guess their two flute bits for aluminum would work best. Also if you get the PreciseBits collets, you can run 1/8", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" bits. Kodiak also has drill-mills that might work decently as v-bits; I have some but haven't tried it yet.

If you're going to do a lot of v-carving then I'd give Amana's insert bits a shot; they come to a perfect point, and the inserts are reversible, sharpenable, and replaceable. The inserts are supposedly made of harder carbide; while I can't confirm it, I haven't had one dull on me yet.

The thing with ToolsToday and Amana bits is you're getting a bit designed specifically for a single task. Maybe you'll pay more, but your're using the tool designed specifically for the task at hand. And sometimes that's worth more in the long run, rather than going roundabout with something that may or may not work.

Onsrud has many specialty router bits as well; they sell bits that can cut at speeds approaching 3000ipm on 3/4" plywood single pass, with a clean edge! None of us may ever need that, but like Amana have many bits for many applications. They sell a monocrystalline diamond bit just for polishing the edge of acrylic; the cost is over $1800!

[Mountaincraft]

Can't afford the compression bit (which is what I 'want')... Just too many needs right now in too many areas...

I was just wondering about the 3/8" down spirals as I can get a couple for less than half price... If they'd be good for the short term and a good thing to have in my arsenal or I should just wait..

I see no way around the 60 degree V Carve insert bit... It looks like I'm gonna have to pull the trigger on that regardless... So that's $65 bucks right there.. which makes finding a deal on a general purpose 3/8" or larger bit that much more imperative 'this' month... Maybe I can get that amana or onsrud compression bit next month...

So what do you think about the 3/8" down spiral? Can it serve me well, or should I wait.. I want to get something larger than the 1/4" bits I have now... so that I have a little more room for error in as far as breaking the thing by forgetting to turn on the router or whatever... and I'm thinking I can push it a little harder and deeper than the 1/4" or 3/16" bits I'm using now..

Just a bit concerned about the 'down spiral' part of it all... I don't know how big a deal or problem that is...

[Pplug]

Can't afford the compression bit (which is what I 'want')... Just too many needs right now in too many areas...

I was just wondering about the 3/8" down spirals as I can get a couple for less than half price... If they'd be good for the short term and a good thing to have in my arsenal or I should just wait..

I see no way around the 60 degree V Carve insert bit... It looks like I'm gonna have to pull the trigger on that regardless... So that's $65 bucks right there.. which makes finding a deal on a general purpose 3/8" or larger bit that much more imperative 'this' month... Maybe I can get that amana or onsrud compression bit next month...

So what do you think about the 3/8" down spiral? Can it serve me well, or should I wait.. I want to get something larger than the 1/4" bits I have now... so that I have a little more room for error in as far as breaking the thing by forgetting to turn on the router or whatever... and I'm thinking I can push it a little harder and deeper than the 1/4" or 3/16" bits I'm using now..

Just a bit concerned about the 'down spiral' part of it all... I don't know how big a deal or problem that is...

Hey it sounds like you need to set up a relay to turn your spindle/router on and off automagically! I've snapped 3 1/2" carbide tools in my mill by an underpowered spindle.

I've used up sheer, down sheer and compression bits. My favorite is the compression, I use it on almost everything. It saves me a ton of sanding time.

[Mountaincraft]

Hey it sounds like you need to set up a relay to turn your spindle/router on and off automagically! I've snapped 3 1/2" carbide tools in my mill by an underpowered spindle.

I've used up sheer, down sheer and compression bits. My favorite is the compression, I use it on almost everything. It saves me a ton of sanding time.

The S-PID should take care of that, but by the time I order it, have it shipped, build a case for it, install it, program it, etc.. most of next month will be shot..

Well, my thinking was that I am using 3/8" bolts run through the ends of my X rails into 3/8" threaded couplings as hard stops for the axis (albeit two of them.. one on each rail), that maybe a 3/8" bit might survive being run into the side of a piece of material on the bed with the router off.. The 1/4" certainly don't...

[stk2008]

Wish every one would stop going on about the

Super PID.

Hahaha I am messing about because I am trying to save for one with little success and the more I hear about them the more I get jealous hahahaha.

[Mountaincraft]

Wish every one would stop going on about the

Super PID.

Hahaha I am messing about because I am trying to save for one with little success and the more I hear about them the more I get jealous hahahaha.

Well I hear ya there! Even though I'm about 80% sure I'm ordering it in the next few days, it's far from a done deal...

[ger21]

I use mostly downcut bits at home, but I don't cut all the way through. I leave about .005-.01, and pop my parts free and clean them up with a sanding block.
At work we use downcuts for rabits and dadoes, and compression bits for cutting out parts. But we also have a 15HP spindle and 50HP worth of vacuum pumps.