Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller

[Khalid]

Roman,
Please identify RT1 and Rt2 in attached picture. Actually the small resistors are just on the top of writing so can't read.
Regards

[Khalid]

found the resistors:
I have replaced all above components. Thanks

[RomanLini]

Wow Khalid! I sent you a little kit of replacement parts many months ago!

Are you saying you did not receive the parts? I wish you had said something I would have sent more out as you were one of our three original SuperPID testers.

Do you need more help now Khalid or is it all going good now? Just let me know whatever you need from me.

[Khalid]

Wow Khalid! I sent you a little kit of replacement parts many months ago!

Are you saying you did not receive the parts? I wish you had said something I would have sent more out as you were one of our three original SuperPID testers.

Do you need more help now Khalid or is it all going good now? Just let me know whatever you need from me.

Hi Roman,
Unfortunately i did not receive your package, i think you sent me when your country was under flood..recently i visited the big city where i found the TRIAC and resistors and some other stuff for my projects...
I will soon test the SuperPID, Did you send the replacement chip in that package too?...
Thanks for your help Roman.

[RomanLini]

I can't remember re the chip Khalid, I will ask Val he keeps all the mailing records. I'll PM you with details.

Good work on your computer controlled graphic fountain too!

[Walky]

Roman, is the SPID (v1.1) more sensitive to the low-high sensor cycle at higher speeds? I was playing with the sensor's position and I tested it with a less than ideal read, something about about 65% (lo-hi range) with about 5% inconsistency at each end (a small hi-lo cycle at each end, might the sensor's position or just a need to repaint the wheel): it now stops reading the rpm (goes to full speed) at speeds over about 14K.

I'm sure some more tweaking will fix this, (I'm pretty sure it's not the SPID fault), but I'm curious about the reason behind this. Perhaps it's too fast at that speed for the filtering algorithm to get to accuratelly filter a not-so-clean sensor reading? (microcontroller speed limitation).

Thanks!

[RomanLini]

Hi Walky, the sensor has hardware and software filtering to remove noise. It triggers about the middle of the bargraph, so to adjust the sensor properly you should get the "white" paint to read as high on the bar as possible (over 90% is fine) and the "black" paint should read as low as possible (under 10% is fine).

It is quite tolerant of imperfect paint, but you should still have no trouble getting a range close to 90%. The sensors are all tested with grey-shade cards during the manufacture of the sensor leads and all test <5% and >95% at 3mm distance.

If you are only getting a range of 65% that is quite poor! Please check the white paint is clean and not scratched or worn. Also check your sensor distance is 2mm to 3mm as shown in the instructions.

To get a reading of only 65% you have done something quite wrong, probably with that last sensor position adjustment.

There should be no problem at any RPM 5000-30000 provided you are getting a reasonable sensor signal.

[Arbo]

I had a strange thing happen this weekend when cutting something. Had everything set up, the superPID appeared to be functioning normally, when I hit start/run on Mach to start the job, when the router turned on, the screen on the super PID went all gibberish. So it was showing stuff like "##///#///////?###/" rather than as it should.

When the job finished I shut the machine down and brought it back up and it was working fine.. must have been a glitch of some sort.

[Walky]

Hi Walky, the sensor has hardware and software filtering to remove noise. It triggers about the middle of the bargraph, so to adjust the sensor properly you should get the "white" paint to read as high on the bar as possible (over 90% is fine) and the "black" paint should read as low as possible (under 10% is fine).

It is quite tolerant of imperfect paint, but you should still have no trouble getting a range close to 90%. The sensors are all tested with grey-shade cards during the manufacture of the sensor leads and all test <5% and >95% at 3mm distance.

If you are only getting a range of 65% that is quite poor! Please check the white paint is clean and not scratched or worn. Also check your sensor distance is 2mm to 3mm as shown in the instructions.

To get a reading of only 65% you have done something quite wrong, probably with that last sensor position adjustment.

There should be no problem at any RPM 5000-30000 provided you are getting a reasonable sensor signal.

Hi Roman

It seems you didn't get the point of my comment. I know that such a small range is not ok (we talked about it when I first installed the sensor, lots of pages ago); what I was trying to say is that I was playing with the sensor position and trying diferent orientations of the sensor to find the best fit (want to improve the sensor mount and hopefully keep it at 90-95%, when it used to be at about 80% or something like that IIRC), and in the process I just happened to test it at a not-so-good range (the mount installation is not finished, so I was just playing around with it in the process) and it caught my attention that it works until it hits anything over 14-15K rpm and then goes full rpm, so my question is only out of curiosity about why does it stop working at any higher speed at that range (instead of being equally unreliable at any speed), so I can get a clearer idea of the SPID inner workings. I hope I explained myself more clearly now.

[RomanLini]

Hi Arbo, the display itself is a computing device (it has a tiny computer inside the display) and if there is a major power disturbance on the 5v supply to the SuperPID it is possible for the little computer inside the display to crash or glitch. That should be a very rare occurence as the SuperPID has a number of 5v filtering features built in.

The SuperPID resets the display everytime it turns on, so it would have reset the display back to normal (as you expected) when you shut down and restarted. Do your +5v power wires (or LCD wires) run close to any noise sources (like the router or mains cables)? If so it is possible it picked up a spike there. Like I said this is very rare and can happen to any device with a display, but if it happens again you could look at re-routing the cables and/or adding an extra filter cap between the +5v and GND terminals of the SuperPID.

Sorry Walky I misunderstood what you were asking. I believe what is happening at high RPM is due to the analog filtering inside the Super-PID which smooths out any noise on the sensor signal. As you have now adjusted the sensor so the sensor signal is too small, at high RPMs the noise smoothing feature is reducing the overall signal and causing mis-triggering. For a more technical description; the effect of noise filtering is to attenuate high frequencies more than low frequencies.

[Walky]

Sorry Walky I misunderstood what you were asking. I believe what is happening at high RPM is due to the analog filtering inside the Super-PID which smooths out any noise on the sensor signal. As you have now adjusted the sensor so the sensor signal is too small, at high RPMs the noise smoothing feature is reducing the overall signal and causing mis-triggering. For a more technical description; the effect of noise filtering is to attenuate high frequencies more than low frequencies.

Thanks Roman for your answer. So, if I understand correctly, at high speed the high-low cycle might look like noise to the SPID because it's getting closer to the magnitude (because of the deficient level of the "high" sensor state) and duration (because of the higher frequency/RPM) expected from noise spikes?

[RomanLini]

Yes, the high frequency is more aggressively filtered by the noise filtering circuitry so it is affected first.

Because you have adjusted the signal to be too small in size the first area to fail will be the high RPMs. If you adjust the signal even smaller then it will cease working altogether.

[Aryantes]

I finally got my super PID v2 installed.

Gecko G540, 4 axis package on CNCRouterParts Rack and Pinion.

Hitachi M12VC Router.

I recently cut half inch thick cast acrylic and it is awesome.

One huge thing that I noticed was improved part holddown.

Before SupePID, I think my router was occasionally slowing down during profile cut out passes, losing power, and pulling up on the stock causing vibration/chatter. (O-flute upcut spiral and 2 flute upcut spiral)

I lost one bit because of this.

Now, the things don't move, and the cuts are awesome.

These are the settings I'm currently using with huge success.

1/2" Cast Acrylic

Onsrud 1/8" O-Flute Upcut Spiral (63-712)
11,000 RPM
110 IPM
0.05" Depth of Cut

I haven't tried to push it to the max yet as I think I can go much more aggressive than this, although its already fast.

Going to try aluminum soon, and take pictures and/or video for finish quality and stuff. Very exciting. Thanks.

The level of confidence when clicking Cycle Start has gone up dramatically

[Don C]

Has anyone used a PMDX 107 PWM controller to operate a Super-PID. It's power is not the same as computer power.
Thanks
Don Clifton

[RomanLini]

Thanks Aryantes for the nice words and also for posting your feeds and speeds for cutting acrylic!

I assume that is cutting at full tool width (like a 1/8" groove)? Just watch when cutting aluminium to cut at partial tool width so there is lots of room to throw chips clear.

DonC- I don't have direct experience with the PMDX 107 PWM controller module, but I just looked at it's web page and it seems to be ok to accept a PWM signal from the PC and output an "isolated" analog speed control voltage.

So it looks like that controller module should be fine to produce the 0v to 5v analog speed control voltage required by the SuperPID. Obviously the gound of the isolated PMDX output should be connected to the SuperPID 5v ground, like the PG terminal.

If anyone has actual experience with the PMDX module please speak up!

(edit) Ok I got a chance while eating my Chili to look through the PMDX instructions, pages 7 and 8 discuss and show that the PMDX 107 can output a 0v to 5v analog voltage and shows the simple connection diagram.

Based on the PMDX 107 instructions figure 1 on page 8 you connect 2 wires;
PMDX - SuperPID
Aout - POT (is the variable voltage output wire)
Agnd - PG (is the ground wire)

[Don C]

I think I tried that but will do it again. I tied the PC ground and 107 ground together. I'll let you know.
Thanks
Don C

[Don C]

That works great. I was putting the ground from the PMDX 107 to ground on the side were you power the board instead of the PG terminal.
Thanks for the help
Don Clifton

[HelicopterJohn]

Hi,

Here is a video that made on the installation of Super PID Installation on my Shopbot PRT 48 X 96 CNC Router.

I have 2 router motors that I can use on the Shopbot. A Porter Cable 7518 and a Makita RF1101. The video shows some pictures of those installations and also the enclosure I made for the Super PID module.

Many thanks to the guys at Super PID for a GREAT product.

Also thanks to Don Clifton for his help on this project.

John

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3QK9R7my_s"]YouTube - ‪Super Pid Installation Video.wmv‬‏[/nomedia]

[Aryantes]

Thanks Aryantes for the nice words and also for posting your feeds and speeds for cutting acrylic!

I assume that is cutting at full tool width (like a 1/8" groove)? Just watch when cutting aluminium to cut at partial tool width so there is lots of room to throw chips clear.

Yes, full tool width. This is usually when I am cutting out multiple parts from a single large sheet of acrylic.

I will probably be doing the same with aluminum. The O-Flute bits seem to clear chips incredibly well.

[RomanLini]

DonC- Good to know that worked out. I didn't think there would be too much wrong.

HelicopterJohn- Wow! That's a great video thank you for that! I worked very hard on designing the SuperPID and it's nice to hear someone talking about their SuperPID installation with genuine pride in their new gadget. I had to re-install flash to get the video working (my PC problem, not your video) but it was well worth it.

It was interesting to see your solution using stereo jack plugs to swap your two routers too, so the RPM sensors stay with the routers and you just plug them into the SuperPID enclosure. Which I noticed you engraved too.

I'll try to give Val a kick in the pants to get some of these user videos linked on the main SuperPID.com web page as there are lots of people who have posted videos of their Super-PID installs.

Aryantes- I haven't tried the single flutes apart from some very small sizes 1.5mm and 2mm which I don't use a lot as they are quite delicate. I'll get some 1/8" and 1/4" single flutes with my next order of bits and try them out.