Problem- X2 mini mill head from little machineshop

[FandZ]

Hi all. My mill head came in form littlemachineshop.com and I'm a little disappointed. Firstly, I think they sent me a used unit. It was packed in a box with broken Styrofoam. Looking the unit over, I can see black greasy finger smears. Also, one of the bolts are bent, and it looks like the base of the unit was crashed into a table. There is also plenty of chips and scratches in the paint.

It does turn on and spins. I haven't tightened and put in an r8 collet yet, but there just seems to be a light wobble/vibration on the spindle. You can feel the off center vibration through the table. It isn't much but it is there. I'm hoping once everything is tighten that the run-out goes away. Is that normal?

Are these rebuilt head units they sell or are they brand new?

I've never worked with a mill so maybe this is normal but I'm wondering if they sold me a lemon and if I should return it. All together I spent just 800 there on the mill head, pulley upgrade, and the manual quick change TTS system. I'm kinda wondering if I should have went with the Sherline spindle.

I'm attaching pics of the unit and how it arrived. Let me know your thoughts.

[Agro]

How sure are you the courier/transit company didn't drop it off the back of a truck ?

Send it back. If you didn't pay for used your shouldn't have gotten used.

J.

[FandZ]

Originally Posted by Agro How sure are you the courier/transit company didn't drop it off the back of a truck ? Send it back. If you didn't pay for used your shouldn't have gotten used. J.

Well it arrived in a big box surrounded by big bubble wrap then it was in the center of its own box. The markings I see on it look more like wear marks than dropped marks. I've worked in retail before and have had to take back returns and this looks like a return to me. I'm really worried about the spindle.When I ran it the vibration felt like it was out of balance. I'm hoping someone who has used and x2 before can tell me if that is common without a R8 collet in there.

I'm thinking I will have to send it back.

[tumutbound]

Have you spoken to LMS?
Give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they'll sort it out.

[FandZ]

Originally Posted by tumutbound Have you spoken to LMS? Give them a call and explain the situation, I'm sure they'll sort it out.

Looking at it some more I found wear marks on the bottom of the gear shaft that is behind the spindle. It looks like it hit a fixture while in use.


I just got it in today so I haven't spoken with them. I just requested an exchange on their website. They have a good reputation so hopefully it'll get resolved. I'll post back with the outcome.

[CarveOne]

The Styrofoam packing is not firm enough to handle the weight of cast iron assemblies. It will crumble like this during normal shock loads during shipping. I have gotten things like a 22" scroll saw from Grizzly that looked like this, and had two broken castings. There were no holes in the box when I signed for the delivery.

The bent bolt can be straightened easily enough. It looks like a T-slot bolt that is used on some mill table clamp sets.

The grease is normal for Chinese mill equipment. The workers handle a lot of greasy equipment each day and don't spend the time to clean up the equipment before packing.

The gears will look worn even when new. My buddy bought one of the HF mini-mills five or so years ago. I made the belt drive parts for him from plans he found on the web after he had a series of shattered gears. I looked at the broken gear pieces and they are cast, not machined from solid stock. The plastic had air bubbles in it and was fairly brittle, unlike higher quality machined nylon gears would look. There are replacement metal gears available, possibly from LMS, because of this problem. Mini-mill forums folks will know where to find them.

The way to check run-out is with a magnetic dial indicator base stuck to the side of the casting and a dial indicator mounted into the base. Install a collet with an end mill in the collet. Position the dial indicator tip on the shank of the end mill then rotate the end mill by hand and watch the indicator variations. If you see significant run-out, remove the collet, clean the collet and inside of the spindle, and try it again. You'll be lucky if you see 0.0015" to 0.003" run-out. Less is better though. You may feel significant backlash in the gears though, and that is normal.

I also recommend calling or emailing LMS about this before doing anything like trying to repair it yourself. I don't think that anything internal got damaged during shipment due to the Styrofoam packing. We'll never know if this particular unit was returned from a previous LMS customer or not.

CarveOne

[fatal-exception]

Did you seriously expect the paint to be in good condition? Good luck with that. I bought a new lathe from busy bee machine tools. It's been almost a year and the thing looks like a jawbreaker. I can count at least 4 colors of paint, if you can all that stuff paint. (ugly colors too. )

I bought the same head from LMS a few years ago and it arrived in about the same condition as yours, although there was no noticeable runout in the spindle, and I'm still using it to this day. If there's any runout, it's a dud, send it back. If there is indeed runout, I would say shame on LMS for sending it out. The dents nicks and scrapes dont matter, the runout does.

[Agro]

One thought on the collet - are you sure you have an R8 spindle and not MT3 ?

The majority of these mills are MT3, albeit a couple of suppliers distribute R8 versions.

J.

[FandZ]

Originally Posted by fatal-exception Did you seriously expect the paint to be in good condition? Good luck with that. I bought a new lathe from busy bee machine tools. It's been almost a year and the thing looks like a jawbreaker. I can count at least 4 colors of paint, if you can all that stuff paint. (ugly colors too. ) I bought the same head from LMS a few years ago and it arrived in about the same condition as yours, although there was no noticeable runout in the spindle, and I'm still using it to this day. If there's any runout, it's a dud, send it back. If there is indeed runout, I would say shame on LMS for sending it out. The dents nicks and scrapes dont matter, the runout does.

Heck yea...lol I wanted it to sparkle. But after I thought about it some more and read everyone's post, I can see how it would get banged up in shipping. It'll come down to run-out if I keep it or not.

Originally Posted by Agro One thought on the collet - are you sure you have an R8 spindle and not MT3 ? The majority of these mills are MT3, albeit a couple of suppliers distribute R8 versions. Yea it's an R8. The R8 TTS system I ordered fits perfectly. J.

Yea it's an R8. The TTS system I ordered fits perfectly.



Here is LMS's reply. I feel a lot better knowing they are willing to do what it takes to make it right.

"Anthony:

Please don't confuse "used" with "made in a filthy factory". That thing was in a box straight from China, right? Packed with broken bits of Styrofoam?

We will replace any bent knobs and such. And clearly, if the taper in the spindle has runout over 0.001" you get a new one.

But dings in the paint and such are pretty typical. And, with the gear drive they are not very quiet.

So please check it out from a functional standpoint. We will replace anything that does not work correctly, or replace the entire unit if need be."

[FandZ]

Thought I'd make an update. The mill head is not the source of the run-out, it's the r8 collet that holds the quick change tooling. I measured the run-out on an r8 indexable endmill and it's less than .0009. Whenever I put in the R8 collet with any of the TTS tooling the run our is .005 or more.

Here is a picture of it mounted.

[CarveOne]

Originally Posted by FandZ Thought I'd make an update. The mill head is not the source of the run-out, it's the r8 collet that holds the quick change tooling. I measured the run-out on an r8 indexable endmill and it's less than .0009. Whenever I put in the R8 collet with any of the TTS tooling the run our is .005 or more. Here is a picture of it mounted.

If the gear noise bothers you, there are a few variations of belt drive conversions available. I followed plans my buddy downloaded from the web and made the parts for him to do the conversion on his HF mini mill. It made a major difference in the way it runs and also has a wider speed range. I think LMS still sells a conversion kit also.

CarveOne

[FandZ]

Carve one, thanks for the heads up. It's hard to tell in the picture, but I've already upgraded to the belt system from LMS. It's good stuff. I just need to get a new R8 collet so I can use it. Right now the runout is too bad to use it for anything. I retested and it's .0080 - .0090


There is something you could advise me on. I want to strengthen my Z axis column by using some side support plates. I also want to use metal dowels that go through the plate and into the 80/20. What I'm thinking is I'll bolt the plates on the frame, then drill through them and the 80/20 on my drill press at the same time. Then hammer the dowels through to make sure I get a great fit. Does that sound like the way to go about it?

I'm attaching a picture that shows the bolt holes but not the dowel holes. They are the yellow plates.