what the law has to say..

[stef_d]

.. about home built CNCs..
i wonder.
especially if it is to be used in a professional environement.
does it have to be inspected, homologated, certified, stamped ?
it probably varies from country to country.
also, it may be possible to steer the machine in a direction where there is no fuss regarding it's certification (it's not a "machine" officer... merely a automated way to guide my CE aproved router, using CE approved computer equipment...)
anybody has some thoughts ?

[morphious69]

I think if this is an issue I would not imagine the country is very sophisticated. Since every machine shop makes custom jigs and such in house for jobs that are custom jobs. a home made CNC machine would technically just be a custom in shop built jig. Just a lot more flexible of a design as jigs go

[stef_d]

Originally Posted by morphious69 I think if this is an issue I would not imagine the country is very sophisticated. Since every machine shop makes custom jigs and such in house for jobs that are custom jobs. a home made CNC machine would technically just be a custom in shop built jig. Just a lot more flexible of a design as jigs go

I spent a bit of time researching the matter this morning, and it appears that it is covered, at least in Europe by the 91/368 directive.
That covers any machine that "moves" things by any other mean that by hand. basically, from a minidrill to a lift.
that i am afraid includes cnc, but excludes a template/jig for a router.

it is more of an issue if you intend to sell the machine. from what i gathered, it is more or less a auto-certification process (for a spindle type of tool) with a few forms to fill and register at some EU office.
for circular or band saw (the closest application to ours), and a few other special machines (injection molding..etc..) the machine has to be inspected.

but then again.. Europe isnt that much sophisticated !

[DEDan]

If it is safe, and you pay the fee, it will pass. At least that is how the government usually does it.

Now, if you have to pass a private certification, that is another story.

[stef_d]

Originally Posted by DEDan If it is safe, and you pay the fee, it will pass. At least that is how the government usually does it. Now, if you have to pass a private certification, that is another story.

that's fair enough, but what is safe to me is not safe to everyone.
it's fairly subjective, and if one is to gamble the success of a business on something as subjective as "it is safe", then one needs to really look closer into the matter !
but yep, from what i can see, it's not a question of passing a test, as far as CNCs are concerned, but more like declaring you have a cnc machine which you made yourself and you judge it is safe. then fill in the forms, pay the fees, and off you go.

lord knows what happens if the neighbor's cat gets chewed in the machine !
he may be abble to sue your ass and your children's too..who knows.

[thebodger@roger]

a bit off topic, but I recall reading a post about not being able to buy stacked dado blade sets in the UK because they wouldn't fit under the saw gaurd. this promoted saw user to remove the gaurd. So it seems the gov. them banned the sale of these dado's. what i'm getting at is there are some strange regulations out there. On the topic of home made CNC's, it would be interesting to see how that might be perceived by the ones in power. I wonder if the thing caught fire, and damaged part of your home, what the insurers of your home would say?

[mlabruyere]

I think this will only have issue if you have a shop that has employees. To that end I believe the requirements are such that you have a process and procedure for working around and with the machine. The electronic/electric components of the machine are covered by the OEM’s and are stamped/certified as such. So long as you are not modifying the case of the router or stepper and are following proper procedure for connecting and testing you are covered.

Typically there is some form of visual or physical boundary around the machine. A painted mark extending 1 foot from any moving portion of the machine. You may need to enclose the machine in a wire mesh or some other physical boundary to keep folks from walking into the moving gantry….depends on the local laws.

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by mlabruyere I think this will only have issue if you have a shop that has employees.

I agree, this is probably the deciding factor.
Most developed countries have a Govt. Health and Workplace safety dept, In Canada you can expect a unannounced visit from either them or Workmans Compensation to check on visible safety issues.
Some controlling bodies require an Electrical Safety sticker, others not so sticky.
But the onus is on the owner if an accident takes place and suitable emergency requirements are not in place.
For example if there is a safety issue with a hand loaded machine, palm buttons are used that require both hands to operate the machine if guards are not practical.
For home use you can get away with virtually anything, I have noticed that many here that have posted their wiring diagrams that would not conform to normal electrical control E-stop practices.
Many manufactures, particularly in Europe, are using Safety Relays now in place of the simple E-stop control relay.
These have variations that allow specialized powering up and power down of equipment in a safe manner.
Al.

[hemsworthlad]

Originally Posted by stef_d I spent a bit of time researching the matter this morning

You haven't got time to mess about with trivial things like this you should be building. . .Lol

Any way watch what you say or you'll have the fun police(HSE) round taking your toys away.!!

Bigger issue for home user's is insurrance, if your place catch's fire and turns out to be your machine that started it and it's not certified electricly to new RoHS standards then your stuffed.!!

Safety factors come into play big time with employee's, if you so much as look at machine in a funny way they(HSE) will jump on you.!!

Then if your talking scenario's were the public can access the machine as well has throwing employee's into the mix, you may as well just sell your soul to the devil, it will be cheaper.!!

European and UK HSE Regs are strangling manufacturing in this country. . . . Fast.

Watch out America dont let it get to the ridiculous state it has here.!!

[mlabruyere]

Originally Posted by hemsworthlad European and UK HSE Regs are strangling manufacturing in this country. . . . Fast. Watch out America dont let it get to the ridiculous state it has here.!!

Yeah...the new Administration is continuing the crap the former started. "WE THE PEOPLE" are finally awake again and will be throwing the bums out.... We've got a lot of practice at that....

[Thazul]

Amen mlabruyere!
Out with the thinkers, in with the doers
Under the guise of progress, they oppress

Sorry stef_d, I didn't want to hijack your thread/make this a rant.
Just hope that more Americans reading this post realize what has been headed our way for a long long time.

-

Andy

[stef_d]

no prob, we all have an opinion and we can all contribute.
i have a slightly different opinion. i think regulations are needed. it's just a shame that they can be expensive to the end user.
i know that it's pretty easy to build a death trap in your garage, and better safe than sorry.
take the case of a chemical factory blowing up, who is to blame, who pays, who is responsible if there was no regulations to comply with ?
on a smaller scale, i am in the process of building a dust extractor, cyclone type.
well, there is nothing more explosiv than dust, and the thing will be sitting a few feet away from a 2ton plastic container of domestic fuel.
enough to blow up my house, and probably the neighbour's too, if it was closer !
i for sure will be checking all regulation i possibly can.
1- to avoid killing any member of my familly
2- avoid any law suits for destroying any car that would have been in the fall out radius.
because i know for sure that my insurance would not cover my ass, unless i complied to the regulations!