Build Thread- New 5-axis cnc build

[macb6497]

I am planning on building a 5-axis cnc miling machine. I have started drawing specs on the design and would like any input as to where I can get some good controllers and spindles (important!).

If anyone can help with the planning of this build when it comes to components, that would be great!

I built a 3 axis machine for cutting the components for the 5 axis. If you would like to see this go to http://www.youtube.com/marcbrownvideos

But this thread is mainly to get some input on the components and tips when I get this build started.

Regards,

Marc

[jsheerin]

What CAM program are you going to use to create code to run a 5 axis machine? I've been thinking about a 5-axis router, eyeing my pile of thk rails in the corner and thinking about a 4ft travel z axis. But the CAM is the killer. I'm hoping whenever Mecsoft finishes their 5 axis program that they won't price it astronomically.

For controllers I'd personally use Gecko drives. You could go with a Chinese spindle if you're on a budget, or there are some nice looking HSD spindles for sale on ebay from the factory for pretty reasonable prices. Beyond that, Keling has some spindles that have ATC's built in.

What size machine are you planning? What are you planning to cut with it? Or are you just building it for fun? Personally I'd like one because it would cut my man hours about in half for the production of my cabinets which would let me charge less (and would be the biggest time reduction I could make in the entire process), and I think I'd get a better fit and finish compared to how I build them now. If I was doing it full time I'd do it in a heart beat.

[macb6497]

Originally Posted by jsheerin What CAM program are you going to use to create code to run a 5 axis machine? I've been thinking about a 5-axis router, eyeing my pile of thk rails in the corner and thinking about a 4ft travel z axis. But the CAM is the killer. I'm hoping whenever Mecsoft finishes their 5 axis program that they won't price it astronomically. For controllers I'd personally use Gecko drives. You could go with a Chinese spindle if you're on a budget, or there are some nice looking HSD spindles for sale on ebay from the factory for pretty reasonable prices. Beyond that, Keling has some spindles that have ATC's built in. What size machine are you planning? What are you planning to cut with it? Or are you just building it for fun? Personally I'd like one because it would cut my man hours about in half for the production of my cabinets which would let me charge less (and would be the biggest time reduction I could make in the entire process), and I think I'd get a better fit and finish compared to how I build them now. If I was doing it full time I'd do it in a heart beat.

Well, I see this is going to be less stressful as we are on the same page.

Software:

The CAM/CAD program I am planning to use is Alibre's Design and CAM Standard software. It supports up to 5 axises and mach 3 can go up to 6 so I am ok there. The CAM software also supports postprocessors for Mach3.

Electronics:

I plan on using 2-540 Gecko drives connected using the 2 parallel ports I will have on the comp. This will be powered using 9A parallel power supplies.

I am using the 4 port cards because I will have a total of 6 motors (2 for the x axis) I will most likely upgrade later because it is too much to buy an individual controller for each motor and a breakout board.

Machine:

Now on to the good stuff, the machine is going to 12' long (X) and 4' wide (Y) with to Z being able to extend to a 7' height.

I plan on cutting wood and metals with the machine because I will double up some of the wood supports such as the Z-axis since it is so long. This machine is mainly for production but I will definitely have fun in the mean time.

[jsheerin]

Thanks for the CAM suggestion. It looks like Alibre CAM is $4k for 5-axis capabilities, but the only capability for the 5th axis is indexing - not simultaneous 5 axis movement. That would get me part of the way to what I want to do...

Are you building this machine out of wood? That seems pretty ambitious, especially for a production intentioned machine, and especially with a z axis travel like you're talking about. I would be afraid that would excessively limit the cuts you could take without getting a lot of chatter. Ditto on using steppers and G540's. I think my G540 is great, but I don't think it can run motors that are powerful enough to drive this kind of machine (mostly the z-axis) without excessive gearing down which would give you very low movement speeds. It sounds interesting though - post some pics of your design.

[macb6497]

Originally Posted by jsheerin Thanks for the CAM suggestion. It looks like Alibre CAM is $4k for 5-axis capabilities, but the only capability for the 5th axis is indexing - not simultaneous 5 axis movement. That would get me part of the way to what I want to do... Are you building this machine out of wood? That seems pretty ambitious, especially for a production intentioned machine, and especially with a z axis travel like you're talking about. I would be afraid that would excessively limit the cuts you could take without getting a lot of chatter. Ditto on using steppers and G540's. I think my G540 is great, but I don't think it can run motors that are powerful enough to drive this kind of machine (mostly the z-axis) without excessive gearing down which would give you very low movement speeds. It sounds interesting though - post some pics of your design.

Yeah I understand the limits but that kind of wood I'm using is 2" think with 4" thick posts supporting it every 4ft.

The part about Alibre is understandable, so you're saying that if I wanted to cut a "U", Alibre would not be able to do that because it requires multiple motors running at the same time?

If this is so what other CAD/CAM program do you know of that has simultaneous 5 axis movement?

The part about the motor controller is that I will upgrade to 7A controllers progressively.

[jsheerin]

Originally Posted by macb6497 The part about Alibre is understandable, so you're saying that if I wanted to cut a "U", Alibre would not be able to do that because it requires multiple motors running at the same time? If this is so what other CAD/CAM program do you know of that has simultaneous 5 axis movement?

Not exactly - I believe indexing only on the 5th axis would mean if you had a 3 axis machine with the B and C axes on the end of the Z axis, then you could rotate the C axis into position and then cut in 4 axes in that position. Then you could rotate the C to another position and cut some more. True 5 axis movement would be the C rotating while the other 4 axes moved. This would let you cut convex 3D shapes with a square ended cutter keeping the cutter perpendicular to the surface at all times, for example. I'm sure this has a specific name in the CAM world. So even the indexed 5th axis would be quite useful - you just wouldn't be able to take full advantage of it.

Mastercam will do full 5 axis motion among others. It's $12-$13k I believe.

[macb6497]

Yeah that is alot unless I can pay monthly.

Well I might now make that base structure from wood but the axises from metal. That should keep the price down.

[macb6497]

Originally Posted by jsheerin Are you building this machine out of wood? That seems pretty ambitious, especially for a production intentioned machine, and especially with a z axis travel like you're talking about. I would be afraid that would excessively limit the cuts you could take without getting a lot of chatter. Ditto on using steppers and G540's. I think my G540 is great, but I don't think it can run motors that are powerful enough to drive this kind of machine (mostly the z-axis) without excessive gearing down which would give you very low movement speeds. It sounds interesting though - post some pics of your design.

I must also say that the length in which the z axis can travel has a height limit of 7 ft total from floor to ceiling.

In other words, the base structure is 2ft tall and the y axis is not going to be exactly 5ft from there.

So 7-2 = 5ft left. I want at least 2ft cutting length so the length of the z will only be about 2.2ft long. 2.2 x 2 = 4.4 (Because the z can go up 2.2 feet and down 2.2 feet), so I still have .6 ft of clearance on the ceiling.

[ger21]

CNC Toolkit does 5 axis and is free. http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/

[ger21]

CNC Toolkit does 5 axis and is free. http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/

[jsheerin]

Gerry, have you tried it? I've seen it before but haven't tried to learn it. I haven't been too motivated given the almost complete lack of information on the website. For instance, if I couldn't import solid models from my cad program, I wouldn't see much point despite that it's free.

Marc,
Why not put your base on the floor? Like this (but a bit smaller):
http://www.cncmotion.com/titangallery.htm
I've been sketching one like this but with beams connecting the two sides together. I'd be able to mount a spoil board on them if necessary, but if not they'd take up minimal vertical room. It would also be easier to load large, bulky pieces of material in to it since you wouldn't have to lift it up onto the table. In addition, if you want a lot of z travel in a normal residential space like a garage (as opposed to a warehouse with high ceilings), this might be a good idea.

[macb6497]

Originally Posted by ger21 CNC Toolkit does 5 axis and is free. http://www.cnc-toolkit.com/

Ok I remember seeing that but really didn't have any interest in it. Did you download it?

What kind of functions does it have such as CAD/CAM integrated because I already have Alibre CAD and am not sure if it will support the exported codes.

I might go with mastercam as many high level mills use it.