Dreaming of cnc, new member saying hello

[wrnchbndr]

I think I might be in the right place...
I'm a guitar maker and professional luthier for the last ten years. I need a 24 X 36 CNC router for wood and a small CNC mill. I have an extensive background in electronics having served in the USAF for 20+ years in electronic warfare systems. I'd like to build my own CNC machines and at this point am trying to educate myself in CNC -- so I'm a noobie. This forum seems lively and current. Can you folks tolerate a new guy?

Recommended introductory reading?

[hemsworthlad]

Hello, The only Good advice I can give is to escape now while you still can!!. . . Before the CNC Disease bites you in the Arse. .Lol.

But if it,s too late then i suppose the next best advice would be to read threads then read some more, plus a few more just for good measure.
Then and only then when you've coverd all designs and setups start to design and build. . . Hope this helps.

[wrnchbndr]

I've been building guitars for many years and have a fair handle on tools and the building of precision jigs. I think that my approach is going to be from the computer design/control and stepper motor side first. I have a huge learning curve to climb. The actual mechanical end of things just needs a wallet to wack together but that doesn't prevent me from grabbing hardware when I see it at a good price. I want to find the software first and then learn about the interface and specifications for motors so I don't find myself in the imposible position of having a CNC router without the ability to run it and then impulsively buy something that I know nothing about.

[rlwoodjr]

Welcome. I play guitar and often think about doing some inlay. I have actually bought a "project" guitar on eBay.

You are right about a learning curve. First building, then the software (cad and cam), next the G-code, then speeds and feeds. It is lots of fun and quite addictive.

This forum has a wealth of information to help get started.

[FandZ]

Welcome aboard. It has almost been a year since I got sucked into the world of cnc's. It has really become an obsession. My days at work are spent thinking about cncing and my nights are spent designing things to cnc. A big portion of my weekends are spent routing out parts. I'm a happy addict.

For electronics I'd suggest you read up on the G540. You'll come to see it's the best bang for the buck with a high level of performance available for us hobbiest. And really, the G540 is used in shops too. For steppers if you go with the g540 you should look at these since they are plug and play. http://cncrouterparts.com/index.php?...tf3tj1h8scrtt7

As for the building material to make your cnc machine, you should check out the 80/20 builds on the zone. A lot of people end up making their second build out of 80/20, my self included.

[wrnchbndr]

rlwoodjr: In the beginning, I did some inlays by just cutting reliefs and then filling the reliefs with black superglue or lacquer. Its a nice effect and doesn't require anything more than a dremel and a template. In the picture, if I've figured out how to load a picture correctly, a template was used for the foot but the toes are done by hand with a little round engraver bit. For inlay, bone is inexpensive and very easy to cut. Old celuloid MOT (mother of toilet seat) pearl is cheap if you find scrap. I've done a fair bit of inlay using pearl guitar picks as my material.

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi WB. Welcome to the Zone!

I suggest you start with this:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78713.#3

CR.

[FandZ]

Originally Posted by wrnchbndr rlwoodjr: In the beginning, I did some inlays by just cutting reliefs and then filling the reliefs with black superglue or lacquer.

Wow thanks for the tip. Never thought of useing superglue. I think I'll try that this weekend useing a 1/8th bit to carve out some wacky designs.

[Crevice Reamer]

Well, if we're going to talk tips: Can you tell me how to find, remove/replace the splitting upbelly bridge on my 1955 Gibson J45?

CR.

[wrnchbndr]

A J45 with a belly bow and splits is something that needs to be done by a pro. I can do this kind of stuff but I choose not to because for the moment it is not economical to either myself or my clients. I haven't done nearly the volume of these types of repairs to get down the process and make it profitable. But I have folks that I can refer these jobs to. A J45 is worth repairing but only if its done right -- any short cuts and you'd kill the value of the guitar. I think the public has access to my email via my registration and I'm happy to answer guitar questions anytime. I generally live at the "fenderforum.com" in the repairs and mods section under the same user name. The mimf.com is a more professional serious luthery website.

[stevespo]

Do you really WANT to build your own CNC machine, or do you NEED a machine to help you with your lutherie work?

If you have a business opportunity, then I would recommend you just buy a machine and focus on learning CAD/CAM, etc. If it's not time critical, then building is a fun and rewarding project. I love my DIY machine. It's been a workhorse for me, but it's also consumed endless hours (and much more money) that I could have (perhaps) been building instruments, doing repairs, etc.

If you want a machine that can be used professionally, in a semi-production environment (meaning high accuracy, little downtime) it's going to be expensive and time consuming. Sticking with a proven design (or perhaps a kit) will help enormously. The act of physically putting it together is not difficult. The electronics will be a piece of cake for you. What takes time is doing the design revisions, spec'ing out the parts, watching eBay for 6 months for the "right" set of rails to magically appear. Then you have to learn the software and become proficient in that as well.

If you want the thrill of building your own "ultimate tool", then I'd say go for it. Otherwise, pick up a benchtop machine and just get to work with it.

Off Topic:

Crevice, my preference is to use heat to remove guitar bridges - although depending on how loose it is, you may be able to work it free with a thin bladed knife, taking the runout of the top into consideration to avoid tearing out chunks of the top. The AR/PVA glues release pretty easily at temps above 180F or so, but you need to heat that bridge through and through and make sure to give it enough time. Hide glue often requires more heat, but you run the risk of opening up a center seam or loosening a bridge patch.

Personally, I've got specialized tools like heating blankets and metal cauls. It can be done with simple household items, like a clothing iron or even a clip lamp (light bulb as heat source, you ABSOLUTELY must insulate the rest of the top from the heat). The J-45 should have two small machine screws hidden under the pearl buttons on the bridge, with nuts accessible on the inside via the soundhole.

Provided you get the bridge off, there will be some cleanup and repair before you reglue. There's the potential for finish touchups. Some bridge cracks can be reglued, but generally I want to put a brand new bridge on it. That means getting the geometry right, and correcting for any intonation issues with a new saddle slot. Depending on the condition of the bridge patch (inside) it might be be time to do some patching or cleanup on that as well.

Honestly, with a vintage instrument like that I wouldn't experiment. Take it to a trustworthy pro. I know of several experienced, professional luthiers who have set guitars ON FIRE, while taking off bridges. You walk away with a heat source near that lacquered top, and POOF! If you're daring enough, it's not a terribly complicated procedure, but there are some fine points to be aware of. Check out any number of repair books or search online for "guitar bridge removal".

Steve

[Crevice Reamer]

Thanks guys! Here's a pic. It still plays well, but I'm thinking I'd better do something soon, and gluing, I assume, is out of the question.

CR.