Chinese Spindle after install

[Bugsy36]

I am looking at the possibility of adding a Chinese spindle to my machine. For the most the part I cut aluminum, plastic and wood products with my machine. As of now I am using the PC 7518 with the Precise collets. My biggest problem is that the darn thing is loud as hell.

Unfortunately, the only information that I can find about the Chinese spindles is the the buyer's excitement, the condition on arrival, and what is required for cooling. None of the posts that I have read indicate anything towards longevity.

My questions are as follows:

1. Has anybody measured runout after several hours/months of use?

2. What materials are you cutting?

3. What size spindle?

4. Air-cooled or water-cooled?

5. Is the use production or semi-production or hobby?

I understand that it does not take much to exceed the the precision and quality of a router motor but I am very apprehensive of purchasing one of these inexpensive spindles to be not much better off than where I currently am.

Thank you in advance!

[stevespo]

There are several on-going "Chinese spindle" discussions, and I think you'll find that several people are using them in production or semi-production environments with good results.

My own experience has been very positive. I have not measured runout recently, but it is much better than my previous (2) PC 890s, which were actually pretty good. Now when I cut a .023" slot, it comes out a little oversized (.024"), but I'm cutting this in 4-6 passes, so it's hard to say if the error is runout or positional error. With the router, it was more like .025"+, so this is definitely holding tighter tolerances.

1) runout very good, less than .001"
2) I'm cutting mainly wood, some pearl, some plastic and a few pieces in aluminum.
3) I've got the 2.2kW version, ER20 collet
4) water cooled, 5 gal bucket, fountain pump = stays very cool
5) In the past this was a good part-time job, but now it's more of a hobby. I've got about 80-100 hours of actual cutting time on the spindle and no problems at all.

Will it be "better" than your PC 7518? Perhaps a little more accurate. Definitely a bit quieter. Unfortunately, you can't escape the actual sound of tool on wood. Not to mention dust collection.

So, it is MUCH quieter when it's not cutting anything - but I don't find it hugely better when the work is actually getting done. I still wear hearing protection and can't hear the radio, so I don't see it as a huge gain. Less whiney, but not real quiet in use. Wish I could give you something quantitative, but I don't have a db meter.

I like the collet system, good power, programmable start/stop, and the precision. In those respects it should beat the router hands down. Someday the bearings will need replacing, but that's true of every router as well.

Steve

[contactirfu]

I have two CNC routers - one has a Makita router and the other a chinese spindle - though I don't see any change about the cuts - the spindle sure does reduce the sound of the fan - say any ways you are down on sound by atleast 30% for even the loudest of the cuts - that's definitely an advantage - presently my spindle has more than 40hrs and no problems as of yet -

my friend who has a new chinese CNC machine with the same chinese spindle run's his machine 12 to 16hrs daily and that's been going on for 3 months now - and he certainly doesn't have any issues.

RGDS
IRfan

[Bugsy36]

Thanks to both for responding.

Steve: The ER collet system is a definite bonus and possibly an advantage. I agree that we cannot avoid "in cut" noise. I really do like the ability and advantage of programmed speed control that I do not get with the router. I am glad to see that the tolerances are tighter. Thank you for the real world measurements.

IRfan: Has your friend measured his runout yet? I would be really interested to know where his spindle stands on this.

The reason I am stuck on the rounout of these spindles is because I very often have to make very small holes of .060" and .050" and runout is a killer. I understand that super tight tolerances may not matter for what many do. The people that sell these things claim that they have a runout of .0005. Some claim that is in millimeters and others claim that in inches.

I would also love to get away from water cooling just to keep installation easy although that is not deal breaker. Has anybody used any of the Chinese air-cooled models?

Bugs

[rowbare]

Originally Posted by Bugsy36 I would also love to get away from water cooling just to keep installation easy although that is not deal breaker. Has anybody used any of the Chinese air-cooled models? Bugs

It would be even better if someone has used both and could give an idea of the relative noise level of both... One can dream eh...

[stevespo]

I was very concerned about runout, because I use a lot of small bits for inlay and I'm very concerned about the tolerances. I was never sure if those runout specs were for the spindle, or just the collet. The seller assured me that each spindle is throughly measured and QA'd before it leaves the factory.

I can try and measure the runout again. I actually purchased a better test indicator and am now using fractional collets. I had some problems trying to use the oversized metric collets to hold some of the fractional bits. They have a wide clamping range, but I still wasn't comfortable putting a .250" bit in a .275" (7mm) collet. Could just be that I had a bad collet, because my cuts are super precise with the fractional set.

I don't think you'll have any problems, especially running the small bits. Runout should definitely be sub .001", probably much better. Last time, I think I measured .001" at 1" from the collet, using a .250" ground pin. So, for the small bits that sit closer to the collet, things are much tighter.

As far as the water cooling goes - it is a nuisance to setup. Once you have it working, you kind of forget that it's there. I have it come on automatically when I power on my CNC. A long length of 1/4" plastic hose and a cheap fountain pump in a 5 gallon bucket. There are nicer options, including some of the CPU cooler setups, but what I have works so well I don't feel the need to improve it just yet.

The one advantage of the water cooling is no fan blowing dust all over the place. I can actually run the small bits (.023" - .03125") and the little bit of dust it creates stays right on the part. Running this way is very quiet. My main noise is running the 2HP cyclone about 10 ft away. A good (Fein, etc) shop vac would be a big improvement as far as noise goes. The spindle itself is quiet - none of the high frequency router "whine" you're used to.

The VFD has a lot of cool functions and makes it easy to use speed control, etc. Make sure you use a high quality shielded cable. I used SAB VFD Lean (double shielded) and it has worked out just great.

Steve

[Bugsy36]

Steve,

Thank you for the offer of checking the runout. Your numbers look very promising. The inlays and small endmills make it sound like you are doing guitar work. Even though that sounds like a cool thing to do, I do not build guitars but a need a very similar accuracy for the micro-mills. Your responses are helping very much.

I did do some searches but I still have not found any real useful experiences. The majority of the posts seem to deal with excitement, how to install the water-cooling and the VFD.

I would really love to hear from more people that have umpteen hours of use. Considering how many spindles have been sold in the last year I am surprised many more have not responded.

Bugs

[Bugsy36]

Just bringing it back to the top.....

[analogman]

2.2kW water cooled. Semi-production for about two months. Runs great. Runout is less than .001" (IOW too small for me to care about). No heating problems I just pump water from a closed 5 gal bucket. I mostly cut aluminum .080 6061. Purchased special bits for routering aluminum from Belyin Y.

The reason why you dont hear back from anyone is that we are all spending time using our machines we are so happy with the spindle.

[Bugsy36]

Analogman,

Thanks for the response. what feeds, speeds, and endmill sizes are you using when cutting the .080" 6061? Up until now, I have avoided thick aluminum because of the quality of the edge.

[analogman]

Belyin Y bits specifically for routering aluminum.

1/8" bit 20000 RPM 0.025 pass depth 12 IPM

1/4" bit 15000 RPM 0.025 pass depth 12 IPM

In both cases I use windex for cooling.

Slow, but an excellent edge.

[stevespo]

I've done a little bit of work milling 6061 aluminum as well. .250" carbide endmill, higher RPM (24K), faster feed rates (60-90IPM) and lighter cuts (.010" DOC). I used a center drill to position the holes and then drilled through with my drill press. The pocketing and profiling were done on the CNC.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=51
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=52

Steve