Wood Router Plans questions

[ninewgt]

PAUL

I also bought plans from Machine Tool Camp. The 'engineering plan' he sells is pretty complete but I must agree that his support needs a boost. I have talked to him a few times, asking questions and have come to learn more about him. He does that along with sales of large CNC equipment full time. He is VERY slow to answer an email - IF you even get an answer but he has returned a few of mine.
The thing that bothered me the most dealoing with him was that I wanted to ask him about a few differant ideas - and he did not want to offer ANY help outside of what was covered in his plans... a REAL turnoff.... I realize you have to stop somewhere but he stops a little short.... but I cant say what it may be like if I actually built his plans... I designed my own.
I also bought plans from DATA-CUT. Great plans - great support - and he also knows CNC very well and has a great machine. I built something a lot differant, but Chris at Data-Cut was wonderful to work with and has been a huge help... he's got my vote !

[paulried]

I also bought both companies plans. I still like the MTC plans over the Datacut plans. I finally got an answer back from MTC. Seems they have moved and that is why the fax machine line was disconnected. Kind of poor planning, but I will accept it as an explanation

[GHNorfleet]

Are there any plans out there for purchase right now? I don't need anything real big just some type of plans to build a CNC router set up so I can use my KCAM program. Any info or web links to CNC Router Table Plans would be much appreciated!

[ninewgt]

GH

For a hobby type machine you can look at Machine Tool Camp, or for a more robust machine look at Data-Cut machine - the data cut is a much tighter built machine but will cost you 5-6 K were the MTC machine will run 3-4 depending on the machine....

Chris of Data-Cut was VERY helpful to me in designing my machine and gave me a lot of advice. I purchased his plans as well as the MTC plans - both good plans, the MTC plans are more friendly, however the Data cut plans are much better PLANS as far as drawings and desrciptions of each and every part.... Scott at MTC was also helpful in any questions I had....

I liked differant things about each... MTC plans cant be beat for the information..... Data plans for the quality of the drawings and the amouint of detail - especially if you get the digital pacjkage.

[cadcoke3]

For me, one issue with purchasing plans is that it is really a blind purchase. You generally don't know what the plans consist of, and what has not been covered in the plan. Showing some readable sample pages is very helpful, as well as a thumbnail view (non readable) of ALL pages so that we can see the extent of the documentation.

Another idea which I've not seen out there is video. The video doesn't need to be pretty, but getting to watch each step can be immensely helpful for a complete novice.


Many schools have eliminated their shops because of liability concerns. So, unless you have a dad to learn this stuff from, you just don't have a clue. If you've never been exposed to metal working (which described me 10 years ago) it is very satisfying to see little things like a hole being threaded, or how an experienced man saws off a piece of metal by holding it in a vice. You don't need to vocally describe every minute step... just seeing you work is educational.


Joe Dunfee

[Chagrin]

In my opinion, plans should focus more on techniques and design styles than verbatim measured documents. For example, you could focus on the differences between end-supported shafts and fully supported shafts and give the reader some idea of what to expect when they choose one or the other. Topics like making shaft couplings, selecting steppers and guesstimating IPM rates, controller options, choosing a type of slide, choosing materials for the structure, reducing flex, etc. would be discussed.

If you take the example of John C Kleinbauer's plans you'll be hard pressed to find a single example of someone that duplicated the scale and mechanisms exactly (except perhaps John himself . Basically, the plans should offer more "wisdom" than "instruction". If you could do that and do it well, none of us would ever have to make that "second" (third?) CNC machine.

[ninewgt]

Joe and Chag,

I agree 100% After purchasing 2 sets of plans to 'learn' from I learned a lot. I learned the most from answering my own questions. I designed and built my machine after a TON or reading from the internet, and asking a lot of questions to many differant people. Some of the simple things not covered in either set of plans were not big issues really but simply things that stump or make a novice worry..... I have compiled quite a list of information from my own research that if I was in the plan business would include like :
A list of things not to do when designing !
Areas of the machine that need special attention
Wiring the machine ( MTC Plans cover this VERY well)
Drill sizes for various taps
Simple torque and speed calculations
various wiring explanations for steppers wired in Series, Paralel, or Half Coil and why you should look at those options
Differant types of wire and where to use it
Simple explanations of how bearings are fitted and installed to hold drive screws (ball or Acme)
Hints and tips for counterboring
Locating accurate holes (how too) and drilling them
Some basic must have tools
Getting a machine level

and the list goes on......

All these items when covered with basic answers can make a beginners project MUCH easier as I learned !!!!

TM

[AndrewG]

Hi - newbie here.

I'd like to find a plans that offered to sell the components for the complete project. The ideal machine would be 4'x8'x8" capable with simutaneous 3 axis with servo drive on ballscrews, moving gantry, steel or aluminum framed with bolt-down to wood table. Dust vacuum system and vacuum holddown would be nice. Completed machine should be less than 10K.

It would be sweet if it had the capability to quick-change from router to laser to plasma to hot wire.

[ninewgt]

Hey Guys

As some of you know i am offering the plans for my 4 X 8 router now for sale....... I have tried my best to cover a lot of the issues mentioned above......After doing this myself.... I learned the value of customer support........ and clean drawings..... I believe that everyone will be happy with them - but Ill be improving them per any customer input........... My plans are all printed on 2' X 3' sheets - again to make it easier.... but as far as customer support - I agree you have to have good support. One of the plans I purchased while learning was from somoeone who basically had the attiturde " Its on the plans, if its not pay me for the answer" which was a real turnoff...... by the way it was NOT Data-Cut.....
I am going to try the FAQ page also on my new website.... I think your right Laf.... good idea ....... Im going to start working on it. As far as the Home Depot thing....... It wouldnt work on my machine.... at least i dont have the desire to figure out that one !

Anyway......... Plans are ready !!!

[Carver]

Hi Andrew,
your wish is not at all unrealistc on the first part. There are small cnc shops that sell their entry level machines on ebay for a few thousand. You can talk to them and they will usually do whatever it takes to take care of you. Kit level or modification.

If you build it yourself you will have a complete understanding of it and save a little cash in the process. Get recent references and do hold back some payment untill after deliivery. One of my consulting clients just dumped forty thousand dollars on a custom bargain machine that has not run yet (seven months )

Your laser will not be happy in a router environment normally.

You hot wire machine will normally have to have two co-ordinated terminals for the wire if you are talking about large scale stuff.

The router to plasma works fine, just make preparations for the heat.

There are a couple of commercial companies that specialize in cnc kits with all the mechanincal components ready to put on your table, just do a Google search for cnc router kits.

You have done the most important part already, getting on this forum. There are some pro quality guys in here daily and it is one of the best ( only in cnc ) disciplined forums around.

My personal suggestion is to do all of it you can yourself, you can beat your budget, even with new electronics and hardware.

Best of luck,

Phill Pittman
digicarve@verizon.net
www.masterwerkes.com

[tpworks]

Try the shopbot site they have 4x8 for well under 10k

[vacpress]

John Kleinbauer, crankorgan guy has some plans that are probably ok for begineers, i bought them a long time ago, and didnt like them, they were most usefull as a source of 1 coherant idea. search "crankorgan", i bet hed comes up.. anyhow, the plans were very plain. The only thing i kept from them was the use of this nice aluminum window channel that mr. kleinbauer probably first introduced for use. It is a nice C-channel configuration, and when used as basic blocks and riveted together they make very nice large ridgid spars for a gantry.

Also on the plans note - i think its time for "opensource" plans. a set of simple plans that describe 1 or 2 machines and how they can be built. the userbase here is full of pictures of machines built entirely from hardware store components! sure, some people put their high-precision linear guides in their MDF cabinet-makers envy... Dunno. I would contribute some graphic design help to such a project.

Here, ill also post that stuff in the files, in a .pdf. gotta copress it, what a pain. anyways, its a set of redraws I did of the plans i bought long ago. There are like 18 pages, but i dont know if i will ever finish them.

cheers