New Machine Build- Sidewinder CNC

[woodturner550]

I decided to get a CNC router about two months ago and have researched the project and decided to go with the Sidewinder CNC. Because I have a Laser CNC (CO2) most of the concepts where fairly common to me. But every project is a learning process.

About the 10th of September I ordered the router and received it in two and a half weeks (didn't expect it for three weeks). Was very well packed and documented.

I am in the process of building the table and doing the upgrades I wanted on the machine. Upgrade Items - 1. added stiffener plates to the gantry. 2. Opto isolation breakout board. 3. Limit switches.

The stepper motors run smoothly with the setting sent with the machine.

I am using Mach3 for controlling software on a 3 GHz Pentium running Windows Vista, VCarve, Cut3D and Vector Art 3D models.

I want to thank all those who contribute to this forum as it is a wealth of information

[jeffmorris]

I checked out the website for Sidewinder CNC routers at http://cncsidewinder.com and I like the machine. I may get the 40X26 CNC router but I think that Bosch RotoZip Rotary Tool is not strong enough. I already have the Solsylva Overhead Leadscrew CNC router that I built but I thought that its working area of 20X17 is too small and the overhead leadscrew gets in the way.

Woodturner550, How large are the shipping cartons? How are the cartons shipped? Is the machine easy to assemble?

[woodturner550]

The machine is very easy to assembly and the documentation is good. I made one upgrade to the general assembly, I upgraded at my local hardware store with nylon lock nuts rather than the star nuts that come with the machine. I did this due to the normal vibration of all machines and didn't want to chance of nut and bolts coming loose.

Shipping was UPS. The frame was shipped in a wooden crate 11 X 11 X 42 inches, all parts were wrapped and taped. Empty space was filled with paper so there was no movement. My frame carton weighed 107 lbs. The electric parts and the rotozip was in another box, about 20 lbs cardboard and protected with peanuts.

The machine is OK without any upgrades. That said each use of a machine will have different "wants" for upgrades. Machine would be to expensive if "all" possible upgrades were part of the package.

I hope this helps, Write Dave of Sidewinder CNC he is very helpful.

[TOTALLYRC]

Originally Posted by woodturner550 I decided to get a CNC router about two months ago and have researched the project and decided to go with the Sidewinder CNC. Because I have a Laser CNC (CO2) most of the concepts where fairly common to me. But every project is a learning process. About the 10th of September I ordered the router and received it in two and a half weeks (didn't expect it for three weeks). Was very well packed and documented. I am in the process of building the table and doing the upgrades I wanted on the machine. Upgrade Items - 1. added stiffener plates to the gantry. 2. Opto isolation breakout board. 3. Limit switches. The stepper motors run smoothly with the setting sent with the machine. I am using Mach3 for controlling software on a 3 GHz Pentium running Windows Vista, VCarve, Cut3D and Vector Art 3D models. I want to thank all those who contribute to this forum as it is a wealth of information

Thank you for joining the zone and good luck with your router.
You will not be sorry if you put the limit switches. It is on the to do list for my router.
A breakout board is about the chapest insurance and it makes a nice way to hook up the vacuum.

Originally Posted by jeffmorris I checked out the website for Sidewinder CNC routers at http://cncsidewinder.com and I like the machine. I may get the 40X26 CNC router but I think that Bosch RotoZip Rotary Tool is not strong enough. I already have the Solsylva Overhead Leadscrew CNC router that I built but I thought that its working area of 20X17 is too small and the overhead leadscrew gets in the way. Woodturner550, How large are the shipping cartons? How are the cartons shipped? Is the machine easy to assemble?

I currently use 2 roto zips (cuts 2 parts at once) for fiberglass and carbon fiber. I am not thrilled witht the runout of the spindles but they work on the smaller bits. I have a 2.5 hp router that I will install this winter. I want to be able to swap back and forth, we will see what happens.

Mike

[Buick455]

Anyone know the part spec's of the sidewinder? I emailed Dave last night about a spec sheet b/c I'm looking for more info pertaining to the parts he uses on the machines. I haven’t given much time for him to answer but I'm eager, lol. His machine looks as though it would be a little bit more money then if I DIY it, but saves me the time and bloody knuckles... so it’s a maybe

I’m looking for the following info:
What screws are moving it?
What motors & driver? I think it’s the Xylotex drive w/ 269oz motors
If so is it using the 4 axis or 3 axis? One on each screw for the Y?
What PSU?
What’s the brand of the bearings and rails?

And if someone has more pictures of the machine that would be great also..

Thanks everyone

[woodturner550]

Best if you get the information from Dave direct, I would hate to misspeak.

You are correct on the stepper motors and drives. And it is three axis, on stepper motor for each axis, at least on my small machine (24X16X7).

I will be posting pictures soon.

As to if you could do it cheaper yourself, that would depend on you expertise in machining and bending metal. And of course sweat equity in you machine and cost of the manufacturing errors that have to be remade. For my money I feel I got a nice machine for the money.

[Buick455]

Originally Posted by woodturner550 Best if you get the information from Dave direct, I would hate to misspeak. You are correct on the stepper motors and drives. And it is three axis, on stepper motor for each axis, at least on my small machine (24X16X7). I will be posting pictures soon. As to if you could do it cheaper yourself, that would depend on you expertise in machining and bending metal. And of course sweat equity in you machine and cost of the manufacturing errors that have to be remade. For my money I feel I got a nice machine for the money.

I have been lookin into a the 8020 ext framed design ppl have been working with ( I wouldnt begin to play with the pressed steel parts, maybe my welder but deff not pressed steel ) and cncrouterparts blocks and bearings (which seem really strait foward, and a great solution for the DIY first timer).. I have drawn up a machine with a hypothetical cut size of 27x27x? ( didnt draw up the Z yet ). In my guess't'mits im up to about $1800-$1900 for all my parts and then another $150ish for nuts and bolts.. sidewinder 40x26 is $2800+300 shipped.. If his lead screws are the same, larger cut size, and an hour or 2 of putting it together it could be an option for me.. I'm already selling a kidney regardless, lol.. It would also have better "Wife Approval Factor" b/c I would only be wasting time working with the machine instead of working on the machine

[TOTALLYRC]

Originally Posted by Buick455 Anyone know the part spec's of the sidewinder? I emailed Dave last night about a spec sheet b/c I'm looking for more info pertaining to the parts he uses on the machines. I haven’t given much time for him to answer but I'm eager, lol. His machine looks as though it would be a little bit more money then if I DIY it, but saves me the time and bloody knuckles... so it’s a maybe I’m looking for the following info: What screws are moving it? What motors & driver? I think it’s the Xylotex drive w/ 269oz motors If so is it using the 4 axis or 3 axis? One on each screw for the Y? What PSU? What’s the brand of the bearings and rails? And if someone has more pictures of the machine that would be great also.. Thanks everyone

If the machine you are looking for is in fact using a xylotex to to run the machine, ask him specifically how fast it will rapid before the motors stall. As a xylotex owner I can tell you that they suffer from midband harmonics in the worst way and can stall at very slow speeds compared to more advanced drivers with electronic midband compensation.

I just checked the website and it says up to 360 ipm. I would ask what is the guaranteed rapid on the machine that you are buying.

If you are going to cut wood on this machine, you will need to cut at a suprisingly fast feed rate. It needs to go at least as fast as you would move the router by hand or it can burn the wood or dull the bit. I responded to someone else and I guestimated about 40ipm cutting speed.
The machine you listed has a 40" travel? If max speed is 40 ipm that is 1 min to go from end to end. On my mill with 20 tpi screws the max reliable speed is 10 ipm, way to slow for a router na dmarginal for a mill. If you have 10 tpi acme screws you will go 20 ipm, still to slow for a wood router in my opinion.
If they are 5 tpi ballscrews you will go 40-45 ipm which is on the extreme low end of what you should go on a router if doing wood. Price the machine without xylotex and power supply.Then get the G540 to drive it. Make sure that the motors are 3.5 amp max and less than 4mh inductance. Get a 50v 10amp power supply and it will fly and for a few more dollars will save you a ton of frustration in the long run. Possibly even full size Gecko's if you go larger on the machine.


Dont take this the wrong way
I find that there is a supprizingly lack of data on the specifics of the machine. He may give you all the details in the spec sheet. I would like to see at least the motor torque and the power supply voltage. The other nice things would be the make of controllers, if they are not made in house. the pitch of the screws in tpi and so on. I also have no knowledge of this machine other than the pics, but I would think that all that sheetmetal would vibrate a lot. IMHO Also for $3K you think it would come with home and limit switches and a breakout board.

I just watched the 2 videos that I could get to open. The machine seems to cut fine with plenty of speed. The rapids look to be around 80 -100 ipm based on a quick guess of the size of the router head diadmeter. I also noticed that they don't use a rotozip in the video's but a large router. I also noticed that the router was running during the whole video. You will want the ability to turn the router on and off from the computer.

I would also ask for a video of it doing aluminum if you plan on doing aluminum and then if you like they way it works on aluminum, the exact specs of the router doing the aluminum cutting.

I am just trying to make sure you get what you want. I have bought stuff based on the looks and price and in the end was dissapointed. No flaming or disrespect intended towards anyone.

Mike

In its' defense it looks well made.

[woodturner550]

It is so nice to see the many opinions expressed on this forum. It gives a person much to think about before purchasing and hopefully keeps the disappointments to a minimum.

For myself speed is not that much of a problem as I will be using bits as small as 1/32 inch. Speed kills! Also I am just a hobbyist and don't have a clock driving me.

In a perfect world each machine would be all things for everyone. Then we would only need on model from one manufacturer for everyone.

As for the pressed steel frame. I am sure that IF on ran the machine hard enough that it would vibrate. This is not a $200,000.00 machine designed to do production work.

I feel that maybe the best questions to be asked is will the machine do what you are purchasing it for, and is the cost appropriate? This will help with the satisfaction level.

[Buick455]

This is in no way shape or form meant to be a bash on Dave or his machine, so if you hear it that way you you’re wrong... Also I have absolutely no experience with the machine other then videos and word of mouth on the net, let alone any CNC for that matter, I’m just trying to make and extremely informed and thought out purchase... It looks like a very nice machine and well made, for the price it seems like an awesome deal for a hobby/lite production machine... For me it just doesn’t have the electrics I would like it to have, that’s all, and that’s why I was asking. And always remember... "Opinions are like armpits, everyone’s got them and they usually stink"

It does look like a very well made machine, and Dave replied quickly and was on top of things when he responded to my email. The spec's he gave me are as follows:
::copied right from my email::
The 40 x 26 model comes complete with everything you need to be up and running in minutes except for a computer. The motors are 269 ounce 1/8 stepper motors. I use 1/2-10 five start precision acme lead screws. The X and Y axis each have four 1" diameter linear bearings and the z-axis uses four 1/2" diameter pillow blocks.

All of the above was exactly what I was looking to hear, maybe a little more detail on the manufacturer of the rails and slides, but this wasn’t a big deal to me I just wanted to know that they weren’t less then the 1" rails or something silly inside of those gantry feet. I don’t like the words “our patent pending design” without seeing them myself. The screws were exactly what I figured they were, and 2tpi just like I was planning on using if I DIY mine. As far as the motors go, I think they are these. As for the PSU goes I am still unsure, maybe Woodturner550 can shed some light on that part for us…

I did ask Dave about selling one without the:
Steppers
Driver & Cables (all the electrics really)
PSU
Couplers
Rotary tool kit & Mount

I basically asked for a price for:
Router only version, minus the above
Porter Cable router mount only ( I have a Porter Cable router I can use )

He responded and said at this time he is only interested in selling complete machines, which is completely understandable and not a problem... To be honest I'm still interested in the machine, just not the thought of ripping it apart to change out the electronics b/c I prefer something different. In the coming weeks you may even see another post by me talking about my new sidewinder 40x26

At this time I am also going to bow out, and stop the hijacking of woodturner550’s thread, and ask for some videos ASAP. I can’t wait to see it since there are very few videos of it in action out there. Thanks for not tossing me out sooner, lol

[woodturner550]

No need to bow out. This is why the forum is of value, "the exchange of information". Why else would I have started the thread?

About Tuesday the last of the items I ordered will be in and I can finish putting the machine base (which holds the electronics) together and will be able to finish by Friday I think. I will take some video and stills at that point. I know how to put jpg's in the forum. I do need some help with how do I do video's in the forum?

I don't have a web site so I don't have any place on line to upload and just give an address. helP HELP!

Thanks,

[TOTALLYRC]

Originally Posted by woodturner550 No need to bow out. This is why the forum is of value, "the exchange of information". Why else would I have started the thread? About Tuesday the last of the items I ordered will be in and I can finish putting the machine base (which holds the electronics) together and will be able to finish by Friday I think. I will take some video and stills at that point. I know how to put jpg's in the forum. I do need some help with how do I do video's in the forum? I don't have a web site so I don't have any place on line to upload and just give an address. helP HELP! Thanks,

Well said.

You could always put the video's on youtube, or several of the picture hosting websites that are out there.

By the way, you said that you are only going to use 1/32 bits, and that speed kills. You will be supprised at how fast they will run if the spindle speed is correct. A bit that small would probally have,as a guess, a proper rpm of 60k and then the ipm would be quite fast. That said, run what you have at a speed that works best for you.
Mike

Hey buick455, are those linear bearings riding on unsupported round rail? As it will make quite a difference. If they are flat linear rails with trucks, or supported round rail then it is a real nice setup.
I do like the looks of the machine, as I said before and I am not bashing it, I just want to be sure you get what you want/pay for.

Since woodturner550 has one, I would wait a couple of weeks and see how happy he is with his machine and could give you complete specs and an idea of the quality, if he is willing to.

Just my 2 cents. If I had a dime for every 2 cents, I could retire.