new project idea

[newguy]

I was talking with a neighbor of mine who is a gunsmith and he was complaining about a gun stock he recently had made for him. He showed me the stock and it litterally looked like roughed out crap. Im assuming it was done on some type of duplicator of sorts but the gouges in the wood are unbelievablly deep so it looks like some hand work was put into it. Needless to say i got to thinking about building a router specifically for gun stocks and gun stock detailing yet i cant seem to find anyone who has ever done this so im wondering why. Am i missing some problem with my logic of building a router that has a 3ft+ travel on X a 6 inch travel on Y and a 4 inch travel on Z should do it that way the router could cut with the grain as it makes a pass. Granted it might be slow going but depending on the size of the cutter i would think you could have it come out pretty nice , plus any graphic or detailing could be done to the stock at the same time.


Waht am i missing?...........

[DSL PWR]

4th axis?

[newguy]

I considered a 4th axis however you could put the stock between two centers with an indexing head and when it got done with on side flip it 180 degrees then when its done with that side flip it 90 and do the detail work for the barrel, trigger, etc. Eventually a 4 axis would be nice but initially i would think you could get by with a 3 axis machine.

[ger21]

There's a member here who makes gunstocks. Turmite, I believe.

[jgro]

I'm hoping to get into that someday. I need to get some of my other projects done first. There's nothing wrong with your logic. It could be done.

[newguy]

Been doing some searching on termite and i see he does pistol grips but i dont see where he has posted any pics of his setup , termite if your out there can you offer some help?

[buscht]

I've seen production CNC machines do the exact thing you are saying. It's a very good application. At the IWF show in Atlanta, there where several on display. Some were cutting six gunstocks at a time.

[turmite]

Well....I can try to help but I am nearly as new at this as anyone else. While I have made gunstocks full time since 1989 I have just this past year started moving into 3d cnc carving. I can tell you a couple of things that I found out. It is a lot easier to do if you have lots of money, which I don't. I designed my own 4th axis and had a friend who owned a machine shop make it for me. He happened to need a couple of expensive gunstocks. I had to (not by choice) retrofit my cnc machine with new drivers and a new controller. The old system was so jerky that it nearly shook my machine apart. I had made the decision almost three years ago to do this but was concentrating on learning 3d cad and modeling. I have had to work on a shoestring and that has really slowed my ability to get back up running quickly. Following is a list of things I think are of highest importance but in no particular order.

A really good 3d modeling.........I use Rhino
A really good cam software.......uh...I'm still looking due to money
A heavy machine with a stout spindle motor.
A rigid 4th axis
A mentor

LOTS OF MONEY!

As I said above I use Rhino but am still learning on it. My suggestion would be to find a good 3d modeling cad/cam program even if it cost $$$$$ so long as everything was contained within one program.

Attached is a sample of my 3d and cad work.

Mike

[turmite]

I though I might as well show a couple of samples of work and the machine I have designed that I want to build.

Mike

[newguy]

Given the flat on the bottom of the blue gun i can guess your buddy the machinist is a target shooter, is that wood or fiberglass? ( those are pricey gunstocks by the way ) Anyway here is what i have at my disposal, 3 500 oz steppers, my z axiz allready made, rails for x and y on the way ( possibly thk ) , my bridgeport to machine anything i need or the neighbors prototrak, and a 4 axis driver board, plus my neighbor the 60 year old gunsmith ( my mentor when it comes to guns )

So from what i see i need a design, my x and y rails ( sturdy ones ) a power supply for my driver board and steppers, and some 3d software.

Just out of curiosity if thats wood you are making the stocks out of are you machining the length of the gun in passes or are you rotating the stock and machining the width of the stock. Im just wondering i was thinking going with the grain ( length ways ) would be better then across it but like i said im still green when it comes to woodworking. Also what do you think of my idea of not using a cnc 4th axis in the begining but instead using a manually indexed center and doing one side at a time then the gun ident detail? Last question i swear , in all honesty how long does it take to machine a stock , if you dont mind me asking.

[turmite]

"Given the flat on the bottom of the blue gun i can guess your buddy the machinist is a target shooter, is that wood or fiberglass? ( those are pricey gunstocks by the way )"

Almost all my stocks are for competition, but yes my friend is a target shooter. My stocks are not nearly as pricey as some, but definitly more than others!

Just out of curiosity if thats wood you are making the stocks out of are you machining the length of the gun in passes or are you rotating the stock and machining the width of the stock. Also what do you think of my idea of not using a cnc 4th axis in the begining but instead using a manually indexed center and doing one side at a time then the gun ident detail? Last question i swear , in all honesty how long does it take to machine a stock , if you dont mind me asking."

The two pics of actual stocks are both wood. The Teal/green is a piece of Blistered Maple and the bright blue is balsa wood covered and reinforced with carbon fiber. I machine my stocks length wise as you are suggesting but due to my lack of a high end cam program I have to spend hrs making a tool path on a wire frame. This is done in 4 seperate drawings per side along with the top and bottom programs. These are then cammed one at a time to create a complete program. I started this saga three yrs ago with a indexing fixture made of Bubinga. I think my stocks were more accurate then than now but that goes back to my earlier post about having a heavy and rigid 4th axis. It currently takes me 105 minutes at 100 ipm using constant contouring and Mach2 as a controller. If my machine were heavier and more rigid I could carve at 300 ipm.

Mike

ps I could make this a lot simpler for you and just sell youmy set up so I could build the machine I want!!!

[ynneb]

Hey Turmite, when you said

...is balsa wood covered and reinforced with carbon fiber

That makes me wonder why a person couldnt just cast the stock in a resin and then coat it in carbon fibre. Is there a reason why this isnt done?

It would save a lot of machining time, just make up 10 popular shapes and keep on casting them. ?