Need Help!- Which to build, which to buy?

[glintid]

I'm setting up a shop in a few months to do two types of work. I expect initially my bread and butter will be dimensional foam and wood signage and logos using primarily a 3 axis cnc router table with no more than a 6 or 8 inch Z clearance.

We'll at the same time be concentrating on developing our capacity to do larger 3D foam theme props and deep relief signage from coated foam primarily for the entertainment industry and for malls and restaurants etc.

My wishlist for this CNC machine is:

1. a 16" to 18" clearance under the gantry and a 5' x 10' working area
2. a removable table to allow for large foam blocks
3. a removable 4th axis to do colums and other similar objects.
4. Fast(ish)?

We have to buy one of the machines and I expect build the other. I'm leaning towards buying a Chinese 4' x 8' capacity router for the signage and build the 3d foam CNC. Although, I have been lurking on the Mechmate site for a while but can't see how I can convert the design to have such a deep Z ank keep it's accuracy. It's designed primarily to cut panels.

Any suggestions, anyone built a deep Z machine? I'm Afraid of being caught with a machine with 6" Z travel and not having the foam machine in time. Can a machine with a large Z cut denser materials like MDF acurately. I suppose I could initially machine foam in slices and glue it together. Is there some middle ground that would allow me to do both on one machine? I can't afford to buy 2 machines.

Thanks in advance for your input.

David

[Bob Cole]

David;

I don't have many of the answers you are seeking. However, i also have been following the awesome MechMate site, and from the reviews and builds that have been completed, it looks like this would be the perfect machine for your sign business.

There is a gentleman in N.W. Canada that has a 5'x10' commercial router table system {MultiCam} I believe. He builds million dollar theme park attraction displays, and ALL his projects that are over 4-5" in depth are done with the sectional depth parts cut in stages and then glued together.

I would, if you have the time and the ability, build a MechMate exactly as the plans show, and be able to do what the $25,000 routers do, at 1/4 the cost.

Just my 2¢

Regards,
Bob C.

[Gerald_D]

Originally Posted by glintid . . . the Mechmate . . . . . . . It's designed primarily to cut panels. Any suggestions, anyone built a deep Z machine? I'm Afraid of being caught with a machine with 6" Z travel and not having the foam machine in time. Can a machine with a large Z cut denser materials like MDF acurately. I suppose I could initially machine foam in slices and glue it together. Is there some middle ground that would allow me to do both on one machine? I can't afford to buy 2 machines.

Build a MechMate with the 14" Z-slide option and raise the gantry to be 14" above the table. When you want the original stiffness for panel cutting, place a false table "box" on top of your table, to lift the panel much closer to the gantry, to have a short z-zlide doing the work.

[dertsap]

you said you plan to add a 4th axis i would imagine you will probably need a greater z height , if you concider rotating a 4x4 chunk of wood there wouldn t be much if any room left to play with

this is an issue that i am currently trying to figure out and design on my system , one thing that could be done if it is a must to have the limited z height is to sink the 4th axis into a cut out in the table , it may be something to concider while your in the design stage rather than the completed stage as i am

another thing to keep in mind is the amount needed for tool stickout which closes up the working envelope

[John_B]

David,
For the machine you are looking to buy there is the company Streamline Automation that makes the Frogmill 4th axis that is an exceptionally impressive machine, and the work they do with them is pretty cool. I saw one in use in CA a few years ago, and I thought it was pretty well built. To get started you probably can't go wrong with this machine. It's not rock bottom dollar, but definitely good to get a company going quick. Link is: http://www.3dcutting.com/index.php
Regards,
John

[glintid]

Originally Posted by Gerald_D Build a MechMate with the 14" Z-slide option and raise the gantry to be 14" above the table. When you want the original stiffness for panel cutting, place a false table "box" on top of your table, to lift the panel much closer to the gantry, to have a short z-zlide doing the work.

Gerald, that definitely makes sense and places the extra height under the x-axis support beams and not on the gantry. I could then make the table top removable too (support the beams from the floor) and add a 4th axis in the future if I need.

[glintid]

Originally Posted by John_B David, For the machine you are looking to buy there is the company Streamline Automation that makes the Frogmill 4th axis that is an exceptionally impressive machine, and the work they do with them is pretty cool. I saw one in use in CA a few years ago, and I thought it was pretty well built. To get started you probably can't go wrong with this machine. It's not rock bottom dollar, but definitely good to get a company going quick. Link is: http://www.3dcutting.com/index.php Regards, John

John, thanks for the link, I've seen their machines and they do great work. I came across the manufacturer of thir machines at one point and will try to dig up the info. And yes, they do great work and have been at it for a while too.

[Brian2007]

Ya know, everyone has their own opinions, that is a sure thing. So here is mine. For the last 10 years I have both programed and ran various CNC routers in a production setting, where time is money. There are good CNC routers and then there are great ones. Your going to get what you pay for. Buy what you can get service for, check the dealer how many machines does he have in the field. Less than 100? keep looking. My personal preference is KOMO, yes they are more expensive, but they are accurate, fast, and the service is fantastic. Another good machine is Onsrud. Again my opinion is based on my experience where we run a machine 16hrs a day and have got to get parts made. As far a software, here again you get what you pay for, good applications are expensive and usually have a steep learning curve. Oh and another thing really dig into your machine choice and check out the controller, if its cards in a PC walk on by. I know this sound snobish but I have run some of the smaller machines and have not been impressed. Remember if your going to try and make your living and expand your company this machine choice is critical, as you build business it will hit home that time is money. You need speed and accuracy these both come from a well designed machine, and remember any and all machines have downtime your dealer needs to have the knowledge and experience to get you up and running. Parts need to be 1 day away if not hours. One of our machines went down during the middle of a shift and it was 7 working days before we got the necessary parts, guess what it was an import machine and there were none in the US. That machine is history. We have also lost a spindle on our KOMO at 10am. by 7pm it was back up and running. Now that's what I'm talking about, that's service. No we're not next door to the factory either more like 3hours by air. Ok so far everyone reading this can tell I'm biased, well I guess that is correct but if you can't cut 3/4 ply in one pass at 1000 ipm or better and get a really great cut finish your just playin' and wastin' time and money.