Need Help!- 3 Axis Rotary CNC Router

[BearKraft]

Hello,
I am new to this, but not new to woodworking. I build custom duck calls as a hobby as well as furniture from time to time. I have become extremely interested in Homemade CNC Routers, but have no experience whatsoever other than being a redneck and fixing things without paying someone else to do it!!!

Anyways, I have a question, or an idea. Would someone be willing to let me know if this is possible, or how to do this? My big thing is I like to know how much everything is going to cost before I do it!

I want to build a 3 axis rotary CNC Router to engrave duck calls with. I am thinking that I could use my wood working lathe, attach an x axis moving gantry to the cast iron bed with a z axis for the router upright. The complication that I am concerned about is that I want to run the y axis to spin the lathe as the router engraves in straight lines with the x and z axis. Is this possible? I don't see the point of having the router move side to side when it is going to stay in the same place (top dead center)anyway. So back and forth, up and down, and spin should be satisfactory for what I want to do as long as I can find a controller for it. Does anyone know of a controller that this would work with? I am also wondering if a normal 3 axis controller would control it if I used the diameter of the duck call being engraved as the size of the y axis table. The only problem I have there would be that the duck calls are tapered to the end and none of them are ever the same.

If anyone could give me some information on this, I would be highly appreciative. If this is not possible, how much harder is it to build a 4 axis cnc router?

Here is my website if anyone wants to check out my duck calls and some of my handywork:
http://www.bearkraft.com

Oh yeah, the duck calls are at most 5" long for each piece, so the travel of the router does not have to be very long.

Thanks,
Bear

[jalessi]

Bear,

For your application you only need three axis.

I would not convert the wood lathe to cnc however it is possible.

You could modify your lathe and add a column.
The column would become your Z Axis.
The long Axis would become X and the spindle would be your A axis.
The spindle would also need to be driven by a stepper motor and a pulley reduction system.

You would be much better off if you just purchased a Taig CNC ready mill and added a Sherline 4th axis rotary and have a running machine.

In order to find the surface shape or contour of your product you could digitize the X Axis or a much more simple method would be to only engrave on the part of the duck call where the taper is not severe and use a spring loaded engraver that would ride on the surface of the part.

The Taig with the rotary axis will run you about $2,000.00

You will need software that has a wrap function if you want to engrave around the duck call.

Attempting to save money recycling the wood lathe most likely wont be a savings in the end.

You could also use the Taig to make new duck calls.

Hope this has answered some of your questions.

Jeff Alessi

[ger21]

Originally Posted by BearKraft I am also wondering if a normal 3 axis controller would control it if I used the diameter of the duck call being engraved as the size of the y axis table. The only problem I have there would be that the duck calls are tapered to the end and none of them are ever the same.

Yes, that's the easiest way to do it. But the taper will cause problem. The easiest way to do this imo would be to design your engraving, then stretch it to match the taper. Depending on the software you're using for deign, this can be easy or difficult.

If anyone could give me some information on this, I would be highly appreciative. If this is not possible, how much harder is it to build a 4 axis cnc router?

Not much harder, but software to create continuous 4 axis code is very, very expensive.

If you spend a lot of time poking around here and looking at all the diferent home built machines, you should be able to figure out how to do what you want. And just ask if you have any specific questions. Expect to spend around $1000 or a bit more, depending on what material you build it from.

[nicanor76]

Also how computer literate are you? Many people found that running the 3 required programs to run a CNC the hardest and an unexpected $$ part (but can get freeware versions of some). Luckily I found some SolidWorks and MasertCam tutorials and teaching myself those programs. There's some tutorials on YouTube as well but not as in depth, but still helpful for beginners

[BearKraft]

Thanks for the replys, I now see that there are a lot of different ways to do things. As far as my plan, I would like to do something small, but accurate and hopefully for less than $600.

I am somewhat computer literate, I had a vinyl plotter for a while that I got pretty good at running a vector program on. How much can you do on a 3 axis with the free software that's out there? I would like to be able to convert pictures to gray scale and then engrave that in 3D the same way a laser engraver can. Is this possible? and how much would this kind of software run me?

As far as the Taig, that budget is out of the question! I am doing this as a hobby and can't afford to put that much into it. It does sound like that would be the easiest and best way to go for a beginner though! I think I will be a little more satisfied with myself if I can pull it off building it from scratch on my own.

So, if I made one section of the call a perfect cylinder, I could use the rotation for the y-axis by using the circumference of the call as the table length. That makes me feel a little more confident now, at least I wasn't out in left field with it!!!

Here's what I am thinking now, this is if I don't do the section of perfect cylinder part mentioned above:
I could turn the duck call, mount it in my 5C collet indexer, mount that to the x-y table at an angle to match the taper of the call and then mill indexed flat spots into the entire length of the call (maybe 4 per call). Once I did that, I could engrave whatever I want onto the flat spots just as a normal 3 axis cut and then index to the next flat spot and cut a different scene.

I know this is probably a lot more trouble than ya'll think it's worth just to make duck calls, but you would not believe the amount of money collectors pay for one of a kind calls. I saw a 3 piece set of duck calls sell for $5000 a couple years ago at the NWTF auction!!!!! Granted most are handcarved, which I have done my share of, but I want something that I can personalize for somebody and have a quick turnaround without the high cost that other callmakers charge.

Anyways, thanks for your input guys, and if you think I am going in the wrong direction, don't hesitate to let me know why!

One other thing, what size stepper motors would you guys recommend to run a dremel z-axis and a 3/4" MDF x & y- axis that would be holding a 5C collet indexer? And are tighter threaded lead screws more accurate than the faster ones?

Thanks,
Bear

[jalessi]

Bear,

Less than $600.00 is totally unrealistic for a complete system with power supply, spindle motor, stepper drives, computer and software.

Jeff Alessi

[dertsap]

beyond me why you wouldn t be able to build a $5000 product on a $600 dollar table as long as you've got the $5000 dollar idea and the table is half decent


you could make some beaufifull callers with a 4th axis
http://cnc4free.org/ go to this site and do some reading , you can download gmax which is a powerfull modeling software , in it you can run cnc tool kit right in gmax with the capability of 4 axis , 5 and i beleave 6 if youve got the machine for it , software isn't an issue , its free for what you or most people need and really its probably to much software for most

if your resourcefull i can t see why you couldn t build a table for 600 bucks , i used v-bearings and angle iron which would be quite cheap for you to use and it is dead solid , 500 oz steppers are $50 each and drivers can be had at $30 ea axis , the rest is frame work , you could use mdf , steel or aluminum , then all youll need is a router or trimmer and an old pc .
go to a wrecker or someone similar and dig up a gearbox to build a 4th axis run by a stepper
then your one rockin happy duck callin dude

[jalessi]

Dertsap,

Are you talking about the thirty dollar modularcnc stepper drives that you tossed into the garbage can?

Jeff...

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by jalessi Dertsap, Are you talking about the thirty dollar modularcnc stepper drives that you tossed into the garbage can? Jeff...

no i'm talking about the new geckos . i run the gecko 201 drivers on mine , but as you are aware gecko is selling the new breed for 30 bucks

the modularcnc i got for 2 bucks on ebay and i got what i payed for

[jalessi]

Dertsap,

Currently Gecko is not selling any $30.00 drives and has stated that the complete 540 cheap drive solution "drives with interface and breakout board" will be under $300.00

1. First of all a $300.00 solution is no where near $30.00 per drive

2. THEY ARE NOT SELLING ANY $30.00 DRIVES

3. WHAT THEY CURRENTLY ARE SELLING COST 120.00 PER AXIS = $360.00

4. That does not include a break out board or the power supply either.

Next you are going to say you can get a power supply and a spindle motor from the tooth fairy.

Jeff...

[dertsap]

i really don t understand why everything that comes out of you is rude and ignorant but i suppose the suit shows me what kind of person we are dealing with !!

[dertsap]

Bear do some reading in the forums ,you'll find there are a lot of resources here in the way of designing and getting reliable products at a good price , ebay is a great resource , though i never got my power supplies from the tooth fairy ,i did get two power-one supplies which would retail for over 2g for 60 bucks , slo-syn 770 oz motors for 50 ea and a 1150 oz for 20 bucks , ebays great but you just need to be patient