Need Help!- eBay Inverter + Spindle?

[Mark H]

I'm hoping to finish my CNC machine up this weekend, i bought an Ozito 850watt router for $50 at Bunnings. I expect to last about 5 minutes before it's bearings start to act up plus it has a 1/4" collet so I'm looking at what I can upgrade to. I'm hoping to find something that will have an EK type collet (so it's easy to find replacements in different sizes), be readily available in Australia/240v (or ship here) as well as be quieter than an AC brushed motor.

I found this:
WATER-COOL MOTOR SPINDLE 1.5KW AND MATCHING INVERTER c7 | eBay

When looking at other threads and searching google, however i'm not sure how well this would work for a CNC machine.

Can anyone give any advice on:
* What sort of noise i could expect from this
* How much coolant I would need for it, and how I should pump/cool the coolant

I'm planning on mostly cutting EPS foam blocks, thin aircraft plywoods, MDF and carbonfibre with the odd bit of fibreglass thrown in for good measure.

My machine has a 1500mm x 550mm x 170mm cutting area so i'd want to be able to travel at a decent speed on the foam blocks especially.

[nofunatall_00]

It would most definitely work for a CNC machine. Also, have a read of this thread:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...periences.html

Noise will be a fair bit quieter than the Ozito. I've purchased the air cooled version of that exact spindle so I can't comment on the amount of coolant required.

[Mark H]

Thanks for the link. How hot do you find your air cooled version getting?

When i was looking at the ebay photos of the air cooled, they looked exactly the same as the water cooled (including water fittings) so i was pretty skeptical about them.

Reading the other thread, it looks like it's better to go for the 2.2kw units as they come with the bigger ER collet which is easier to find different sizes in (I had quite a time trying to find somewhere with ER11 1/8th collets in my budget that would ship to Australia..)

I'm looking at getting my endmills from Precision Carbide End-mills so i need the 1/8th collet which i can't do with my Ozito.

[pippin88]

I've seen mentions of 1.5kw with ER20 collets, but mostly it seems you need 2.2kw spindle if you want ER20.

Apparently watercooled don't generate much heat and a low flow pump + a 5L reservoir is enough for most usage (no need for radiator etc).

I've got a 1.5kw spindle and VFD that I'm yet to fire up.

[tracyranson]

I am using an er11 spindle set up that I designed myself. It is not water cooled and it cost me less than $60 to make. If you are interested in seeing my design send me an email knottywoodcrafts@live.com

Originally Posted by Mark H I'm hoping to finish my CNC machine up this weekend, i bought an Ozito 850watt router for $50 at Bunnings. I expect to last about 5 minutes before it's bearings start to act up plus it has a 1/4" collet so I'm looking at what I can upgrade to. I'm hoping to find something that will have an EK type collet (so it's easy to find replacements in different sizes), be readily available in Australia/240v (or ship here) as well as be quieter than an AC brushed motor. I found this: WATER-COOL MOTOR SPINDLE 1.5KW AND MATCHING INVERTER c7 | eBay When looking at other threads and searching google, however i'm not sure how well this would work for a CNC machine. Can anyone give any advice on: * What sort of noise i could expect from this * How much coolant I would need for it, and how I should pump/cool the coolant I'm planning on mostly cutting EPS foam blocks, thin aircraft plywoods, MDF and carbonfibre with the odd bit of fibreglass thrown in for good measure. My machine has a 1500mm x 550mm x 170mm cutting area so i'd want to be able to travel at a decent speed on the foam blocks especially.

[drboom]

Hi Mark,

Im building a FLA-100 machine at the moment, im up to the wiring and electronics stage, which ive found is 90% of the job compared to construction of the actual mill itself. my build log is here Home
Im using a 2.2KW watercooled chinese spindle which is ER20.
These are heavy little suckers, id estimate it being around 6 kilo's

diyengineer on youtube has heaps of video's of the same kind of spindle running so you can get an idea of what kind of noise these things put out.

As far as watercooling is concerned, im using PC watercooling pump, radiator, resovoir and tubing. the PC stuff pretty much plugs and plays with the outtake/intakes on the watercooling chamber in these spindles. Dont forget to use distilled water in these things so you dont get colonies of bacteria setting up camp in your waterlines.

The VFD the chinese spindles come with was my one cause for concern. I ditched the one it came with and sourced a hitachi WJ200 constant torque VFD. but thats the subject of many other threads you can find here on the zone.

In a nutshell those spindles are by far better than using an off the shelf carpenters router, they are serviceable as far as the bearings are concerned, much quieter and you can run them alot longer constantly.

Here's a buying tip for those spindles, a year or so ago they were selling for around the 1K mark and now you can pick up a 2.2KW with a VFD for around $220 if you look for em. Look for the ones that have a "make an offer" tag and dont be afraid to go low. i made an offer for over 100 below what he was asking and it was accepted immediatly. He also shipped it to australia for nothing.

[tracyranson]

Originally Posted by drboom Hi Mark, Im building a FLA-100 machine at the moment, im up to the wiring and electronics stage, which ive found is 90% of the job compared to construction of the actual mill itself. my build log is here Home Im using a 2.2KW watercooled chinese spindle which is ER20. These are heavy little suckers, id estimate it being around 6 kilo's diyengineer on youtube has heaps of video's of the same kind of spindle running so you can get an idea of what kind of noise these things put out. As far as watercooling is concerned, im using PC watercooling pump, radiator, resovoir and tubing. the PC stuff pretty much plugs and plays with the outtake/intakes on the watercooling chamber in these spindles. Dont forget to use distilled water in these things so you dont get colonies of bacteria setting up camp in your waterlines. The VFD the chinese spindles come with was my one cause for concern. I ditched the one it came with and sourced a hitachi WJ200 constant torque VFD. but thats the subject of many other threads you can find here on the zone. In a nutshell those spindles are by far better than using an off the shelf carpenters router, they are serviceable as far as the bearings are concerned, much quieter and you can run them alot longer constantly. Here's a buying tip for those spindles, a year or so ago they were selling for around the 1K mark and now you can pick up a 2.2KW with a VFD for around $220 if you look for em. Look for the ones that have a "make an offer" tag and dont be afraid to go low. i made an offer for over 100 below what he was asking and it was accepted immediatly. He also shipped it to australia for nothing.

Good day, I built my own spindle system using an er11 the entire z axis weighs in at a whopping 2.9 pounds. I was planning on using a water cooled unit but I did not want the hassel of all the other stuff so I got creative.

[Mark H]

Originally Posted by drboom Hi Mark, Im building a FLA-100 machine at the moment, im up to the wiring and electronics stage, which ive found is 90% of the job compared to construction of the actual mill itself. my build log is here Home Im using a 2.2KW watercooled chinese spindle which is ER20. These are heavy little suckers, id estimate it being around 6 kilo's diyengineer on youtube has heaps of video's of the same kind of spindle running so you can get an idea of what kind of noise these things put out. As far as watercooling is concerned, im using PC watercooling pump, radiator, resovoir and tubing. the PC stuff pretty much plugs and plays with the outtake/intakes on the watercooling chamber in these spindles. Dont forget to use distilled water in these things so you dont get colonies of bacteria setting up camp in your waterlines. The VFD the chinese spindles come with was my one cause for concern. I ditched the one it came with and sourced a hitachi WJ200 constant torque VFD. but thats the subject of many other threads you can find here on the zone. In a nutshell those spindles are by far better than using an off the shelf carpenters router, they are serviceable as far as the bearings are concerned, much quieter and you can run them alot longer constantly. Here's a buying tip for those spindles, a year or so ago they were selling for around the 1K mark and now you can pick up a 2.2KW with a VFD for around $220 if you look for em. Look for the ones that have a "make an offer" tag and dont be afraid to go low. i made an offer for over 100 below what he was asking and it was accepted immediatly. He also shipped it to australia for nothing.

Thanks for the tip on the make an offer, thats really good to know.

I was looking at using PC water cooling stuff already, good to know it's going to work well. What size fittings are on the spindle?

I'm almost tempted to go with an aircooled unit just to save the expense of water, but i'm not sure how well thats going to go down on a 40c day when my garage is 50c or so. I dont think air cooled will work very well in that sort of condition (i know i dont!)

[hemsworthlad]

Originally Posted by Mark H I'm almost tempted to go with an aircooled unit just to save the expense of water, but i'm not sure how well thats going to go down on a 40c day when my garage is 50c or so. I dont think air cooled will work very well in that sort of condition (i know i dont!)

Definatly go with the WC 2.2kw, no need for all the complex PC radiator stuff just a simple submersible fish tank pump dropped into 25lt barrel or tank of distilled water with antifreeze does the job fine. . . . Why the need for all the complexity (potential for leaks) and plus make the gantry work even harder moving all the water/rad etc when 2 pipes work just as good.? . . Dont figure to me.!!

(The submersible pump needs to have a head height sufficent to clear the highest point of your machine plus a little extra for wiggle room, the pump spec will give this info. 3mtr is usually more than enough)

Problem with air cooled spindles is the duty cycle times (continous run time) are too short esp in the heat your working in. With WC the duty cycle is pritty much continous, it's not unusual for me to leave mine running 36+ hours continous when doing complex 3d work and when finished the spindle is still only just above warm.!

Like others have said don't buy the cheap chinese VFD's there rubbish.

[Mark H]

http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drive...200-022SF.html

How rubbish are the Chinese VFD's, is it something i can live with for a few months and then replace early next year?

My fiancée and i are going to Canada on a 5 day road trip at the end of the year so money is a little tight as we pay for accommodation and save for spending money heh. I need to be able to use some smaller bits (ie: need an ER chuck or something..) for a project so i'll need to upgrade sooner rather than later.

[drboom]

Originally Posted by hemsworthlad Definatly go with the WC 2.2kw, no need for all the complex PC radiator stuff just a simple submersible fish tank pump dropped into 25lt barrel or tank of distilled water with antifreeze does the job fine. . . . Why the need for all the complexity (potential for leaks) and plus make the gantry work even harder moving all the water/rad etc when 2 pipes work just as good.? . . Dont figure to me.!!

I was going to do this with my watercooling but the thought of a bucket of open water next to a table grinding furiously on wood didnt make sense to me, considering all the work we do to make our electronics cabinets dust free. a closed loop system also guarantee's no nasties in the chain.

As far as the complexity of pc watercooling goes, its pretty damn robust if you ask me, im a PC gamer in my spare time and have been running watercooled PC's for the last 10 or so years since the technology first came out for computers. I have used 3 different WC setups from 3 different vendors, ranging from top of the line to the cheap chinese stuff, and in all cases its run pretty much flawlessly for years - yep year's no exaggeration there honestly.
Just my 2c worth.

[Mark H]

I used to be a gamer as a teenager and had watercooling systems back when it was first becoming popular too. I had a system i used for about 3 years and then handed down to Dad for another 3-4yrs which ran on a Thermal Take cooler with no issues the entire time. I'm not fussed by having a 240mm radiator on the back of the gantry with a small reservoir and pump. It's not going to weight very much at all compared to the spindle and gantry - if it is an issue i'll just get some long tubes going down the drag chain and mount the cooling on the table.

In my research, an aquarium pump costs as much as a more powerful pump designed for a PC

Does anyone know what size the barbs are on the spindle?