Help!! Fruitless searching for an inexpensive 24"x36" DIY metal table.

[CNC74]

Hi all,

I have been looking for a kit or plans that will allow me to build a router table big enough to do guitar bodies so a table size of 24" x 36" is my minimum requirnment. I have previously build a Seig X2 metal mill converted with CNC Fusion's kit in the past and it costed less than $1500 with top teir electronics (Gecko 540, Nema 284's and 387's, etc etc) and didn't require any DIY cobling to build it and doesn't come off as looking "scratch built" or cheap. The reason I mention this is that all the threads I have read are quoting crazy pricing for the parts list and still its just a pile of raw matirial and loose parts and a total build cost of over $2,000 for this size in metal not including electronics. That seems way out of line. Is there nobody out there that is offering a bare kit or prebuilt table (ready for electronics) at a fare price?

I saw the "Probotix Fireball Comet" but its danm near $3,500 and is a full ready to roll product where I am looking for a bare bones kit. (If only the offered that as a kit for under $500 with no electronics whick is what I think it is worth...if that.) I don't want to come across as a cheapo but come'on isn't there a good value to be had somewhere out there?

Questions:

1. Is there a "kit" that is made of metal that is bare bones and resonably priced (under $500) without electronics?

2. Is there a "DIY plan" that is more or less the defacto standard one to use to meet my goals as outlined in the above paragragh?

[jsheerin]

Here's the problem you're running into - the X2 mills weigh about 150 pounds and use iron castings made in China, right? So there's not much metal there, it's cheap metal, and a lot of features can be cast or machined into the castings. Now compare that to routers - routers are bigger than an X2 (or at least the one you want), so if you made the parts with cast iron, they would have to be more massive to prevent them from deflecting under their own weight. This would make them cost a lot to ship from China among other issues. So most people here (and most kits / plans you will find) use materials that you can buy and assemble yourself, with aluminum extrusion being pretty popular. Without getting too crazy, 1018 steel is about $1.75/lb, while 6061 aluminum is about $7.14/lb, and most routers in this size range would probably weigh the same or more than the X2 (I know my gantry alone weighs about 140 pounds, but mine is a bit beefy and a bit bigger than you're looking for). So right there you can estimate that the frame is going to cost more. Now add in that because you're using extrusion, you typically have to add machined blocks to support the screws and linear bearings plus the linear bearings and rails (since they're not machined into the castings) plus a lot of fasteners. That all adds cost. So no, it's probably not really likely that you'll find a frame design or kit that costs under $500 for the size you mention, and honestly I'd be suspicious of the performance of any design that was that cheap.

The typical way people get cost down is to build with wood or scavenge materials, but both have drawbacks. They can be overcome to some degree at the cost of your time and ingenuity. Maybe check out Joe's cnc - that might get you closer although the kits are not complete afaik, so you'd have to do some searching here to find total frame costs. I think they also use some mdf and hdpe. Link: Kits & Plans

[CNC74]

Thats some good info right there!

Thanks!

[brtech]

The basic answer to your question is no, not for $500.

You have a couple of choices. You said "metal". This means, effectively, 8020 aluminum. Look at Fineline Automation, but search here for threads that talk about the drawbacks. That will get you a complete router for less than $2000. That compares to your $1500.

If you want to go cheaper, you will have to use MDF rather than metal. The Joe's machine is a good example. The Blacktoe is another. You can get kits, but you end up doing a lot of work.

If you like the Fineline design, you can buy all the parts and cut/thread/drill the metal yourself. You will save a few hundred dollars in exchange for a LOT more work. If you can cut/drill/thread accurately, that's a reasonable plan.

For a bit more, you can get a pretty complete router from XZero. Also search here for threads on them to see the drawbacks.

[adprinter]

I built my own CNC Router table, and tried to design it beefy enough for metal working. Which I beleive that it is, in it's current state. However, I lack the funding to add a variable frequency drive/spindle. So my spindle is still just a Porter Cable LR690 Router. I originally built the table, with no specific plans- just a desire to construct a 24"x48" Router table. The original build only had 3.125" of travel on the Z axis, so when I decided to add a 4th axis, this required a complete re-design and rebuild of the whole assembly. I started out with just 1.5" angle steel pieces to construct the frame, and rails. And it has grown from there. My current (estimated) investment to date is $3500.00 Most of which was spent investing in the electronics, motors, couplings, lead screws, and software. There are advantages in building your own, in that you can design everything to be adjustable. And no matter how precision a build you may THINK you have, trust me, when it comes time to actually use it for something which requires a high degree of precision such as engraving, you won't reqret having the ability to make fine-tune adjustments which would otherwise require doing things like: cutting weld joints, and TRYING to square up some component, and re-welding. Only to discover that it is STILL NOT QUITE PERFECT. The addition of the 4th axis required an increase on the Z axis travel from 3.125" to 13" to accommodate the extra clearance needed for the 4th (or A) axis. As I said, this resulted in a complete rebuild to accomplish. However, the end result is that I now have a combination Mill and Lathe in one machine. As far as the $500 price you are looking for, all I can say to that is: Have you priced a single piece of steel lately? Unless you are using scrap, it's an expensive proposition to go to a local builder's supply and buy even the simplest components needed to construct. Things like .25" thick angle steel are getting hard to even find at places like Home Depot, or Lowes. And if they happen to have it in stock, be prepared to pay $8+ just for a piece that is 4 feet in length. I don't mean to discourage you in your project. But these are the facts in this economy. A good rule of thumb: "Is it Heavy? Then it's expensive!" Even with my first initial build, which I started in October 2008, and completed in May 2009 I had invested more than $1500 of which only about $325 was spent on the electronics and software. The rest was spent on the actual metals used to construct the frame, rails, gantry, table, etc. And that was at 2008-2009 prices. 2011 is a very different animal altogether. EVERYTHING has gone through the roof, in terms of prices. You can see my build at the MachSupport user forum Building or Buying a Wood routing table.. Beginnners guide.. under the Buying or Building a Wood Router Table forum, look for MYCNC Build, and see the "MYCNC.PDF" for a look at my original build. Good luck on your quest.

[louieatienza]

Originally Posted by CNC74 Hi all, I have been looking for a kit or plans that will allow me to build a router table big enough to do guitar bodies so a table size of 24" x 36" is my minimum requirnment. I have previously build a Seig X2 metal mill converted with CNC Fusion's kit in the past and it costed less than $1500 with top teir electronics (Gecko 540, Nema 284's and 387's, etc etc) and didn't require any DIY cobling to build it and doesn't come off as looking "scratch built" or cheap. The reason I mention this is that all the threads I have read are quoting crazy pricing for the parts list and still its just a pile of raw matirial and loose parts and a total build cost of over $2,000 for this size in metal not including electronics. That seems way out of line. Is there nobody out there that is offering a bare kit or prebuilt table (ready for electronics) at a fare price? I saw the "Probotix Fireball Comet" but its danm near $3,500 and is a full ready to roll product where I am looking for a bare bones kit. (If only the offered that as a kit for under $500 with no electronics whick is what I think it is worth...if that.) I don't want to come across as a cheapo but come'on isn't there a good value to be had somewhere out there? Questions: 1. Is there a "kit" that is made of metal that is bare bones and resonably priced (under $500) without electronics? 2. Is there a "DIY plan" that is more or less the defacto standard one to use to meet my goals as outlined in the above paragragh?

If you want "cheap" you might consider MDF. There are some builds here in MDF that are pretty incredible. And you can shape contour and paint it if you wish. Easy to work with too. So "cheap" doesn't necessarily mean bad. It's more being resourceful.

Look at the price of linear bearings, leadscrews, steppers, couplings... heck when I rebuilt my machine I spent almost $75 jsut in nuts and bolts and washers!

Honestly, when I built my first machine, I thought almost the same way. You could always upgrade later. But then you're adding to the expense of the machine becaue you have to make another purchase and spend time retrofitting. But the experience skills and knowledge gathered is invavluable!

You want commercial linear rails and ballscrews? Good luck just buying those components for $500. The bigger the machine, the more expensive these parts get!

My advice? Buy the best electronic components you can and hobble your machine together. Once running, you will see what parts of the machine you need to improve and make better parts for them using your machine! This way, you don't have to upgrade the electronics at least. Don't like the way your first machine looks? No matter, with CNC you can remake it however you like (which is sort of what I did!)