FLA vs Joes 2006

[Bear5k]

I'd be curious whether someone could compare/contrast the Fine Line Automation versus another table-sized machine like Joe's 2006 or even the Hybrid (when equipped with similar electronics). Living in a humid part of the country, the aluminum construction has a great appeal for stability in the works, but whether that appeal is borne-out in real world use is another question.

Thanks!

(Expected materials are hardwood plywood and some aluminum, if that matters)

[ilya]

Bear5k,

It's difficult to compare wooden machines with aluminum because the materials are very different. It is a general conclusion that the machine will not cut reliably any materials that are harder than ones it is built from. So a wooden machine will not be able to cut plastics and metals with good quality.

I have no experience with wooden machines, but I'm pretty confident they won't be very precise. My guess is 1mm - 0.5mm at best. For cutting wood that is enough though.
With aluminum based machine you can get tolerances up to 0.1mm or sometimes even better. With steel (and good design) - 0.05mm or even 0.01mm.

As you see, this really depends on what you need and how much you can spend (both money and time) on your machine.

______________________________________________

My DIY CNC router plans at www.8020CNC.com

[ger21]

I have no experience with wooden machines, but I'm pretty confident they won't be very precise. My guess is 1mm - 0.5mm at best. For cutting wood that is enough though.

First of all, I happen to be a woodworker, and .5mm is not close enough for wood. Not for me, anyway. Maybe .1mm, but much more than that will leave visible gaps, which is unacceptable in high quality work.

And second, there are plenty of wooden machines that are accurate and repeatable to .1mm.

[ahren]

Having supplied parts for both machines, I can tell you that they both work quite well, and there are many successful builds in both camps. In general, people have had great success with the new rack and pinion based systems on both (the kits aren't officially offered on Fine Line's site yet, but Nate has plans that he has been building 2' x 4' kits with).

They are both cost-effective machines that focus money in the correct proportions to where it is needed.

Both systems offer great support -- you can always ask me about anything related to the FLA machine since it is made with all CNC Router Parts components. Joe's forum is fantastic community support, and Joe does a great job of getting back to people.

It really comes down to craftsmanship in terms of how good a machine you will get -- there is still "some assembly required" with either kit. I personally like working with aluminum extrusion myself, as I like the strength and the flexibility of the system, which is why my parts are designed around it. If you want a custom size, I'd go with FLA. However, you really can't go wrong with either one.

Best regards,

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[Bear5k]

Originally Posted by ahren Having supplied parts for both machines, I can tell you that they both work quite well, and there are many successful builds in both camps. In general, people have had great success with the new rack and pinion based systems on both (the kits aren't officially offered on Fine Line's site yet, but Nate has plans that he has been building 2' x 4' kits with). They are both cost-effective machines that focus money in the correct proportions to where it is needed. Both systems offer great support -- you can always ask me about anything related to the FLA machine since it is made with all CNC Router Parts components. Joe's forum is fantastic community support, and Joe does a great job of getting back to people. It really comes down to craftsmanship in terms of how good a machine you will get -- there is still "some assembly required" with either kit. I personally like working with aluminum extrusion myself, as I like the strength and the flexibility of the system, which is why my parts are designed around it. If you want a custom size, I'd go with FLA. However, you really can't go wrong with either one. Best regards, Ahren www.cncrouterparts.com

Ahren - Thanks! As with any purchase in the $2k - $4k range, it would be great to have reasonably reliable build-out costs for both. I like the extruded aluminum build for the FLA kit, but I like the cutting size of the Hybrid, as well. I can easily live with 4x4, but it seems like it would cost an extra $1k - $2k to get a Hybrid to the same build quality (e.g., CastCNC) as the FLA machine.

Do you have any idea of what it would take to get the FLA unit up to a 4'x4' cutting bed?

Thanks!

Bear

[ahren]

To go to a 4' x 4' machine, I would highly suggest going to rack and pinion on your X and Y (with dual drive on X).

I know Nate at Fine Line has some prototype plans for a 2' x 4' machine with CNC Router Parts' rack and pinion which could be fairly easily converted to a 4' x 4'. I think he's charging just a hair under $2k for the 2' x 4', so it'll be a bit more than that (maybe $2200 or so). However, I think Nate is pretty swamped right now, so it might be quite a while before he can modify the plans and produce a kit for you.

If you don't mind doing a little design yourself, you can just order parts from either Fine Line or CNC Router Parts, and your extrusion from Automation For Less -- your cost will end up being about the same, or maybe a little less. I'm happy to help support you via a build log, both in recommending components and in putting them together.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[Bear5k]

Originally Posted by ahren To go to a 4' x 4' machine, I would highly suggest going to rack and pinion on your X and Y (with dual drive on X). I know Nate at Fine Line has some prototype plans for a 2' x 4' machine with CNC Router Parts' rack and pinion which could be fairly easily converted to a 4' x 4'. I think he's charging just a hair under $2k for the 2' x 4', so it'll be a bit more than that (maybe $2200 or so). However, I think Nate is pretty swamped right now, so it might be quite a while before he can modify the plans and produce a kit for you. If you don't mind doing a little design yourself, you can just order parts from either Fine Line or CNC Router Parts, and your extrusion from Automation For Less -- your cost will end up being about the same, or maybe a little less. I'm happy to help support you via a build log, both in recommending components and in putting them together. Ahren www.cncrouterparts.com

I need to do some more planning, but taking an existing design and expanding it is a lot easier than starting from scratch. The question right now is looking at some of the other aluminum designs and seeing what's common, what differs depending upon design goals, what works and what doesn't. Time for some more reading!

[brtech]

I am first or second in line for a 4' x 4' RP from Nate. I'll let him say when he will be ready. He seems to be having the kind of problems all entrepreneurs want - more business than he was actually ready for.

I believe that the FLA kits have somewhat less reworking of parts than a Joes, but both are definitely "assembly required". Joe's has more actual documentation on how to assemble, and there is lots of build info from people who have made them. FLA seems to be pretty much "here is the solidworks model that shows where all the parts go, you can figure out the rest from here". There are many options for a Joes, few from FLA as yet.

I am attracted by the 'just bolt it together' aspect, and am deluded into believing it will be more accurate.

[Bear5k]

Originally Posted by brtech I am first or second in line for a 4' x 4' RP from Nate. I'll let him say when he will be ready. He seems to be having the kind of problems all entrepreneurs want - more business than he was actually ready for. I believe that the FLA kits have somewhat less reworking of parts than a Joes, but both are definitely "assembly required". Joe's has more actual documentation on how to assemble, and there is lots of build info from people who have made them. FLA seems to be pretty much "here is the solidworks model that shows where all the parts go, you can figure out the rest from here". There are many options for a Joes, few from FLA as yet. I am attracted by the 'just bolt it together' aspect, and am deluded into believing it will be more accurate.

The bolt-together is definitely a plus. A big one, in fact. I can generally follow a SolidWorks model if the underlying object model is detailed-enough. As for accuracy, I suspect that the individual builder has more to do with accuracy between the two designs when using comparable parts (e.g., similar frame materials, similar drive electronics). Mostly I'm still trying to figure out budget, at this point. I can drop $2k a lot faster and easier than $4k, and I'd like to know from the outset which is more likely (so far, $4k is winning out...).

[brtech]

I think my 4' x 4' is going to come in around $3K+ with electronics, computer, router, Mach and miscellaneous stuff. Depending on what I am including, it could be more. I just spent $100 at the local big box on wire, staples, work boxes and circuit breakers, etc. to run new circuits out to the shop for it. Do I count that in the cost of the beast?

I may be wrong, but because the kit I'm getting is complete, I think the accuracy is going to be more in the design and the tolerance of the parts I'm purchasing, and less on my skills. Alignment, of course, is on me, and a big part of the equation.

[BuckNaked31]

I bought the cncrouterparts components and couldn't be happier. The only thing I had to rework was the placement of the nuts (my mistake, should have left more clearance to tighten the screws) I only wish I had gone rack and pinion, but then again when I started on the design, Ahren didn't have the rack and pinion ready. As far as the documentation is concerned, give me a 3d model and I don't need anything else :-)