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  1. #41
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    Look, it really is horses for courses. It just depends on what you are trying to achieve. I have built Patrick's original DIY CNC machine and have been very happy with it for a year now. It cost me about $200 - nothing scrounged, all bought new except for the stepper motors which were second hand - and I built all of my own electronics.

    I wouldn't consider spending $3000 on ANY CNC machine unless I was going into business with it or needed it for a very very serious hobby indeed.

    Whilst it goes without saying that a metal machine is a better option than MDF from a structural point of view, it is just not viable on economic grounds - if you can source the metal cheaply then I would agree, go that route - but here the metal alone would cost way more than Patrick's machine inclusive of the electronics etc. In fact, if you made the table out of aluminium plate IT would cost more than the complete machine (for the same size).

    Having said that I think Patrick's kit form machines are way too expensive for my purse as well, but you can always do what he did - build the cheap and nasty one first and use it to build the better unit.

    BTW I live in a very humid environment (Sydney) and haven't noticed any swelling yet at all - although I fully realise that eventually it must, but the replacement of the entire structure would be less than $20.



  2. #42
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    Wow, I first read through this thread about four months ago while searching for information on building an MDF router table. Since then I have completed my 5x9 MDF table, which is based on Patricks Blacktoe design. I did not purchase his kit. This was not because I believed that it was not worth it nor did I believe that MDF is not a good building material (I am a custom cabinet shop owner, I know better) but because I love to tinker and build. It was as much fun designing and scrounging my own materials as it was putting them together. Having read through the thread again, including the latest posts added after my last visit, I wanted to share my experiences with MDF and a BlackToe knockoff.

    My table is not bolted together, the gantry is glued and screwed (holes are bored and countersunk). The v-bearings are bolted using overlarge washers so they do not damage the MDF and so allow adjustment as needed (after the v-bearings wear the L-channel to seat properly I needed to readjust but they have not needed another adjustment in several months).

    I have done several tests (a couple purely by accident) to see how accurate and precise my machine is;

    1. Mach3 has an included G-code file called Roadrunner, I am sure most Mach3 users are familiar with it. I built a pen attachment for my CNC system, laid a sheet of birch ply on the table and had the machine draw out the roadrunner. I then lifted the z moved both x and y (without resetting any one of them to zero) and restarted the process. At no point did the pen leave the path of the previous drawing. Interesting.....soo...

    2. Using the Mach3 manual, I learned how to send the pen to certain points on my table by manually entering the xyz coordinates. I would then move the head to a random point and have it go to those coordinates again....spot on every time. The pen left a mark one on top of the other....for me this was pretty amazing as I did not expect the precision nor accuracy that I was witnessing.

    3. The other day I was running a complex job involving a celtic braid (looks like lots of worms to me but a customer wanted it). I lost power half way through the process (my fault, I put the entire table and my edge sander on the same circuit but that has been fixed now). I had to restart the machine, computer, and process. I re-zero'd everything (lucky for me I had gone slightly into the material with the tip of the engraving tool so I knew were zero was for this job) and restarted it from the begining. A perfect job, the first half was exactly like the second half even though the tool passed through it twice.

    I would like to address some of the issues with MDF;

    1. I live in West Michigan, as many who have visited here in the summer know; we get 90% humity as a matter of course. MDF does not "Swell up" in high humidity unless it is left outside in the elements and the occasional rainfall in that case would do more damage than the humidity would. If it did, we would not use it as a building material for cabinetry.

    2. MDF is not as strong as metal, very true. But it will not fall apart nor "wobble out" any more than metal will if it is properly built. Loose bolts in vibrating aluminum will result in wobbled out holes, not at as quick as MDF (true) but the end result will be the same. Several years ago I decided to build a larger edge sander (80") for the shop. Usually I would have just purchased a Jet, Powermatic, or Shopfox (well, maybe not a shopfox :> ) but I found plans for an MDF machine that looked intriging (Shopnotes magazine). I have been using that sander in a production shop for almost ten years with no maintainance needed so far (yes, I do change the belt on occasion). If vibration were to cause a failure of the MDF, that machine would have fallen apart long ago.

    I built my table using standard shop tools. I then used the resulting machine to cut out the parts for my "Upgrades" (mostly for estetics but I wanted to raise the height of the cut so I could experiment with larger 3D projects).

    My machine goes where I tell it to (even if the place I tell it to is the wrong place, lol) and does what I tell it ito (see previous comment). I am very happy with the MDF machine and am sure it will last for many years, I base this on 16 years experience with MDF.

    By the way, I have done some "hobby" stuff on Aluminum and Brass (I build custom steampunk PC cases and Sim Cockpits). I have not found the machine to be any less precise or accurate cutting those metals. I will admit that I have no plans to cut steel with the machine, although if I built a Jig to hold material and catch coolant I am sure I could do so (perhaps a low sided tub that bolts, externally, onto my table...hmm....)

    Total cost to build my table: 1293.00. This includes an old PC (P4) from Ebay, Mach3 software, and all hardware. Vectric was another story...sheesh! (but worth it)

    MarkII:









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    Default MDF is bad... MDF is no good... patric MDF cnc for 3k is bad...

    Did someone note that patric from buildyourcnc.com stop the use of MDF some time ago? for the problems that are presented on the MDF he change the materia to high quality birch plywood that is a great materia. Now he change it again for a much better material. At this moment he is using Medium Density Overlaid Plywood. You can get info for that material on http://www.canply.org/english/produc...aidplywood.htm

    Keep the good work Patric.

    Last edited by davicoro; 08-25-2010 at 02:19 PM. Reason: wrong detail


  4. #44
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    Patric is probably experimenting with different materials. I have used a great deal of baltic birch (the high density birch plywood) over the years and it is good material. I have more confidence in the MDF (based again on many years of using both in a commercial setting). The MDO (Medium Density Overlaid plywood) is good stuff as well. The benifit of plywood in strength and MDF in surface smoothness. Excellent for outdoor signs, etc.



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    Default Blacktoe 2X4 from buildyourcnc.com

    I have the above mentioned CNC and have been using it for almost 2 years. I have made extensive modifications along the way to increase the rigidity.

    I started off using the table to make custom BBQ handles as I am on a large BBQ forum with >10K active users worldwide. It worked fine for that but as my business evolved I began making very precise inlays in wood with VCarve Pro so I needed more accuracy in the table. I have had great success with the CNC.

    Shown below (hopefully) are two examples of thing done on my CNC:



    So, in summary, the Blacktoe can be made to work precisely if you are willing to spend some time with it. There may be better deals out there now but I've got what I've got



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    Quote Originally Posted by martyleach View Post
    I have made extensive modifications along the way to increase the rigidity.
    Out of curiosity what modifications did you do?



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    i notice his building laser engraving machines with wood also...

    just asking for trouble......that's all im gonna say...i'll agree with others his prices are way too high for what it is.

    Joes cnc 4x4 sold
    new build in progress cncrp 2448


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    Quote Originally Posted by PropNut View Post
    Out of curiosity what modifications did you do?
    Here is the way my machine looks today.


    I added steel at both ends of the table to firm up the x axis.
    I made all the v groove bearings firmly adjustable.
    I added steel to both ends of the y axis to firm it up.
    I replaced the little flimsy bracket holding the z axis lead screw with a nice chunk of steel.
    I re-made the Router holder bracket to accommodate a Kent CNC Dust shoe
    I added 1/8" steel behind the v groove bearings on the y and z axis.
    I lengthened and reinforced the y axis

    Here are some pics if you are interested.










  9. #49
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    Just a silly question here. Why do you have a AC unit on your table???



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    Quote Originally Posted by dodger889 View Post
    Just a silly question here. Why do you have a AC unit on your table???
    Good question.

    My computer is located in the cabinet with the CNC electronics. I want a cool and semi-dust free environment for it. I did just have a fan with filtration and my computer would over-heat in the summer time. I bought that AC unit new for less than a hundred bucks. Great value.



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    Quote Originally Posted by martyleach View Post
    Good question.

    My computer is located in the cabinet with the CNC electronics. I want a cool and semi-dust free environment for it. I did just have a fan with filtration and my computer would over-heat in the summer time. I bought that AC unit new for less than a hundred bucks. Great value.
    mmmmm that small of an area you could store your cold drinks too. LOL



  12. #52

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    We built a 5’x10’ cnc from a buildyourcnc kit in 2016. First it’s made of MDO not MDF. MDO is more rigid and stable. However the wood frame we built is not flat, due to moving and warping, which is one major problem. However right out of the box, even when perfectly calibrated, cutting parts offered random inaccuracies- some cuts tight at 3-1/2” wide, and others at 3-7/8” on others, for example. Repeatability is not its strong suit to be sure, nor is accuracy. We changed the aluminum tracks to steel (these are what the gantry rides on), and many other updates, but the problems persist. For people wanting to cut shapes, signs, or things which don’t require being within 1/32” tolerance, it’s fine. You could make a living cutting out words or gnome windows and doors, but for our shop it has become a catch-all table for junk because we need the accuracy and to be square. That said, Mach3 software is amazing and easy to use. Great for showing newbies what g-code is and how cncs work. Many cnc users I’ve met have no idea about the basics. Our next purchase was an ancient shopbot, which requires an $8k upgrade to work, and I’m tempted to rewire it with the spindle and mach3 software and computer. Steel is definitely the way to go -both for the table and the gantry. In retrospect I should have spent the $7k for this kit on a Chinese model. I was worried about returns and service, but really would have fared the same. We tried to return this DIY unit but they wouldn’t accept returns. Might have done better with the open source Maslow design for 800 bucks. For the hobbyist it’s fine tho.



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