Building two CNCs for hardwood/plywood and other one for metal

[Mikuda]

Hi there! Basically my quest is as in title.
I want to built two separate machines:
CNC No.1 Bigger one dedicated mostly for WOOD, PLASTICS/ABS, and occasionally METALS routing/engraving. Parts like custom shaped/sized casing elements for electronics projects.
CNC No.2 Compact/desktop one mostly for METALS like brass/aluminium and other suitable synthetic materials like ABS. For machining relatively simple small custom parts like gears and so.

I'll need them for my own hobbyist purposes, so no need for hi-end industrial standards nor high speed and efficiency.

As for CNC No.1 I'm aiming somewhere at ~50x70cm to ~100x100 working area and moving gantry type.
As for CNC No.2 I think ~25x35cm (maybe less) will be enough, and I'd choose moving table for max precision/rigidity of gantry.

Are these sizes and construction types reasonable for my goals?

First technical advice I'll need is spindle choice for each of them.
- For No.1 "woodworker" I wanted to use KRESS 1050 as It's very available in my area, is in my budged range and seems to have good price/quality ratio. Is it good choice or overpower? Will it give this machine some versatility for occasional use of harder materials?
only drawback I see, it doesn't have electronic RPM adjustment (or does it?)
- No idea what to choose for small No.2 "metalworker"?

Keep in mind that working speed is not important factor.

Thanks for all replies!

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[Mikuda]

No one here to help me started?
I need just anything as foothold for further investigation.
Do You need some more details/information?
Or I'm asking wrong questions?
Or we should move my post to some more noob-friendly section?

I'm constantly looking thorough various posts but I'm basically lost in jungle of terminology

[wizard]

Are these sizes and construction types reasonable for my goals?

Deciding on an optimal machine size takes a bit of thought and ultimately is a personal decision. I wouldn't consider a machine with a work area smaller that 12 inches square (about 300mm square). That mainly because if you are going to the expense of building a machine you might as well have a reasonable work area and even 300mm is kinda small. Remember you need to cover the area of any potential part you will machine plus fixturing.

[wizard]

No one here to help me started?
I need just anything as foothold for further investigation.
Do You need some more details/information?

I think you are already on a good path here. I would suggest concentrating on building one machine first

Or I'm asking wrong questions?
Or we should move my post to some more noob-friendly section?

I'm constantly looking thorough various posts but I'm basically lost in jungle of terminology

[Mikuda]

Thank You for noticing my post
Any form of encouragement is always nice.

I still don't want to exceed 350x350mm for one of these machines because of limited home-workshop space. (I will have soon larger off-house workshop for the big one).
Any insights on spindle related part of my question? I will first design and build simple wooden mechanical test prototype not intended to work with any spindle anyway.

As a tidbit, here is my motivation - I had a pleasure of scrapping and salvaging canon's big, industrial grade laser printer and two regular copiers.
Result: 50+ steppers of various sizes and some other motors, probably servo's but I'm not sure yet.

[DonKes]

You might consider a mini mill for the small one.

Don

[wizard]

You might consider a mini mill for the small one.

Don

Don has a good point here. This especially when what you mean by metal worker isn't well defined.

[Mikuda]

It's my metalworker: "CNC No.2 Compact/desktop one mostly for METALS like brass/aluminium and other suitable synthetic materials like ABS. For machining relatively simple small custom parts like gears and so."
I'm sure I can add much more to define it further but that's all I can tell for now considering my knowledge

By "mini mill" You mean spindles like dremel/proxxon handheld ones or a bit more serious but still small like KRESS 530 FM / BOSCH COLT rather?

Another thing, please correct me if I'm wrong: most of them are described as woodworking spindles, BUT can they be also used for METAL if feed rate is slow enough? (With proper cutter bit ofc., and I still mean softer metals like aluminium and brass.)

[wizard]

It's my metalworker: "CNC No.2 Compact/desktop one mostly for METALS like brass/aluminium and other suitable synthetic materials like ABS. For machining relatively simple small custom parts like gears and so."
I'm sure I can add much more to define it further but that's all I can tell for now considering my knowledge

Im going to suggest adiversion of energy here and taking sometime to learn the basics when it comes to maching technologies. For example gars are not always simple machining projects.

When it comes to working metals you really need to learn about the various common machining techniques and the machines those processes are executed on. It is a bit of a stretch right now to be talking about building two machines when you dont have a grasp on what characteristics you may need.

By "mini mill" You mean spindles like dremel/proxxon handheld ones or a bit more serious but still small like KRESS

530 FM / BOSCH COLT rather?

Not at all. We are talking small milling machine, which can be anything from a conversion of a cheap Chinese import, to a Tormac, to a dmall comercial mill from HASS

Another thing, please correct me if I'm wrong: most of them are described as woodworking spindles, BUT can they be also used for METAL if feed rate is slow enough? (With proper cutter bit ofc., and I still mean softer metals like aluminium and brass.)

Again it depends upon what you are talking about here. Some spindkes can handle metal as well as wood working chores. The thing here is that woodworking class hardware is not flexible enough to cover all maching needs.

When you say things like softer materials like brass and aluminum you see to not understand that there are many brass/bronze alloys out there and some of those are extremely difficult to machine.

Beyong all of that your machines spindle needs to be able to supply power at a specific cutters recommended SFM. Each cutter you will use has an ideal set of parameters at which it must operste with in, for the material being machined. Often router spindles are just too fast or with little power delivery at low RPMs.

To put it another way if you expect to machine a mix of metals you would likely be better off with a spindle that runs from say o to 10,000RPM versus a spindle that does i6000 RPM and maxes out at say 30,000. Just realize this isnt set in stone but depends upon the specifics of what you are doing.

edit:

The point ai'm trying to get across here is that it is hard to help until you can better define what you expect out of the machine. What I might consider acceptable can be dramatically different from what the guy next to me thinks is acceptable metal machining capability.

[Mikuda]

Thank You for explaining!
So, first of all, I'm more interested in building process of simple CNC machine than having ready-to-use one. Learning while building is my goal, even if result might be far from perfect.
I understand Your technical and metallurgy concerns. I'm a photographer and people often ask me question like "what pocket sized camera should I buy to make excellent professional studio photos" all I can is roll my eyes then.
But here we come to what I expect to produce on this router. Think of softest/easiest alloys and elements that are not expected to have a hard life.
Among other things (later on) I'm going to educate and explore different mechanical problems in a fun way with my son and other kids/friends. More like making custom elements for "lego technics", but without or as little as possible of lego itself
I hope it makes some sense to You, and that You understand lack of necessity for high precision.
If our appetite grows we can always upgrade existing, or build a new one