Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I'm in the concept stage of designing my first "diy" CNC router. It's really going to end up more of a Mill than just a router, so I'm over engineering it in every aspect. The first thing that's come up as a possible obstacle is finding materials. I was hoping to use 3 or 4" by 8" extruded aluminum for most of the frame and gantry, but have not had any luck finding anyone that supply's it. I would prefer to stick with the aluminum over switching to steel, mostly because steel will require days worth of machine shop time at about 200$/hour where I am.

    Currently own own one of those blue steel Chinese machines, with 32x48" of usable work surface. It does the job well enough, but it's far from ideal. Mostly make signs, and recently started using it to etch knife designs onto tool steel to be cut out by hand later. New machine will be used to do signs And mill knife blanks on fixtures. Even with how loose the linear rails are on my current machine it still preformed half decently milling steel, though it did end up killing my freaky router lol.

    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    82
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    the best companies for modular aluminium profiles locate in Europe.

    check

    bosch rexroth profiles

    Item profiles
    www.item24.de

    www.paletti.de



  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3920
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I dont mean to be a complete contrarian here but if the prinary goal is to machine tool steels you are on the wrong path. Yes i know routers can machine steel and a really robust router could do an acceptable job, in the end though you can buy Chinese cast iron mills suitable for CNC conversion and get better results for less.

    Now if hell bent on building a router, with the primary purpise of machining tool steel, give up on aluminum. For one it isnt cost effective and two you would need rather robust extrusions that arent easy to source. You have already found out just how difficukt it is to find structural aluminum extrusions of the size you would need. Note i said structural extrusions not T-Slotted extrusions. In any event i would most certainly build, with steel, a small moving table machine. Why?

    Well here are a couple of points in favor of a small moving table machine:
    1. For a given amount of materials a small machine can be built much stiffer.
    2. A moving table design helps greatly with stiffness and in my opinion is a bit easier to get the geometry right on.
    3. You reduce the amount of moving electrical materials.
    4. The design lends itself to the use of coolants and coolant recovery.

    Now a steel machine can result in the need to do some machining but here is the thing how much you do is dependent upon the machines design. It is completely possible with techniques described in this forum to do a steel machine that largely bolts together. The need to enlist a machine shop can be greatly reduced. Besides you already have a machine thst can do some steel so you enlist that machine to build this one.

    To put it in short form the amount of machining you have to do, or a shop has to do, is design dependent. Even if a machine shop is needed the end costs are often a wash as Aluminum is extremely expensive and the use of T-Slotted extrusions even more so. Frankly precision use of extrusions, especially large ones, requires a well equiped shop or machining services of the extrusion supplier.

    Aluminum extrusions can certainly be justified for some builds but when the primary reason is to build a machine to work steel my mind just screams NO.



  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ive spent a Long time debating with myself if I want to go the cast iron mini mill route, and I'm still not sure I Don't want to do that, but this machine will Not be primarily for machining tool steel. That will be its secondary use, and only for prototyping to have blanks cut on a water jet off site. Primarily it will still be used for softwood and hardwood signs, as those are what sell more frequently. Space is a limiting factor as well. My shop is my 2 car garage, about 24x22' with an 8' ceiling. I'm already much more overcrowded in there than I intended to be.

    All that being said, I'm not completely closed to discussion about 'unbeefing' my intentions for my new machine. And if I had the space for two machines I would love to build a mill with a moving table rather than 2 axis gantry.



  5. #5
    Member awerby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5728
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    To answer your first question, the T-slot extrusions don't seem to be made in sections thicker than 6", but you can screw them together if you need to, using T-nuts and drilling holes for an allen wrench.

    But I agree with Wizard; you're not going to be happy with an aluminum gantry router's performance if you need to machine steel, especially tool steel. Reserve it for your wood work; the coolant and chips of steel machining shouldn't get anywhere near your wood. For knife blanks, you really need a mill, but it doesn't have to be a large one. One of the little USA-made Taig mills I sell would work much better, and wouldn't take up much space in your garage. Contact me off-list if you've got any questions about them.

    Andrew Werby
    computersculpture.com

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


  6. #6
    Member KH0UJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    660
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I think the most crucial parts on building your own CNC machine is the ball screws, you can build more rigid frames by using stainless steel square tubes, a cut-off saw and a welding machine, the ball screw is the one holding your machine`s accuracy, the bigger the machine the bigger the ball screw, the nice thing about using stainless steel is you can easily weld it, grind it, polish it, no one will have a clue you just build it yourself.



  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I'm not going cheap on any components, so yes on ball screws. I was planning on using 2505's, but after reading a bit here over the last couple of days I think I might switch to 2510's. double ball nut on both X and Y, single nut on 2005 or possibly 1605 X. all 4 motors will be https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDHP-3441P-ELN/ , though I may possibly use a smaller one for Z, for now im budgeting power and $ for all the same motors. Linear rails will all be https://trimantec.com/product/staf-b...il-bgr25-1200/ of various lenghts.

    I do like the stainless steel idea, and I was considering building the base frame from that 6x3 extruded aluminum then having stainless flat bar bolted to the top and outer face of both long sides, and along the gantry to have the linear rails bolt to that rather than the aluminum. Add to mass and reduce flex. Might be overkill, but the whole machine is already that (in my head)

    Yes, the way its looking its probably going to be close to 20,000$ for basically a 32x48 machine... but you get what you pay for, right??



  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoY View Post
    I'm in the concept stage of designing my first "diy" CNC router. It's really going to end up more of a Mill than just a router, so I'm over engineering it in every aspect. The first thing that's come up as a possible obstacle is finding materials. I was hoping to use 3 or 4" by 8" extruded aluminum for most of the frame and gantry, but have not had any luck finding anyone that supply's it. I would prefer to stick with the aluminum over switching to steel, mostly because steel will require days worth of machine shop time at about 200$/hour where I am.

    Currently own own one of those blue steel Chinese machines, with 32x48" of usable work surface. It does the job well enough, but it's far from ideal. Mostly make signs, and recently started using it to etch knife designs onto tool steel to be cut out by hand later. New machine will be used to do signs And mill knife blanks on fixtures. Even with how loose the linear rails are on my current machine it still preformed half decently milling steel, though it did end up killing my freaky router lol.
    Misumi and Bosch Rexroth both make a 100x200 extrusion.



  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    Decided to go with steel. Going to give it a shot without machining the surfaces the rails will be mounted to and see if there is any binding once its all together. If there is, it will all be bolted together so I can take it down and have the surfaces hit with a flycutter.
    Going with 6 x 2 x 3/16 HSS for the frame and gantry, and will have the vertical posts cut on a water jet out of 1/2" plate.

    I was just about to complete my order for the clearpath servos when I stumbled across this https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/...nt=23292883718 while looking for a place to order them from Canada. This kit seems to be just as good an option, for less money and much more local to me. Anyone have any experience with these servos? would it be a mistake I would regret in the long run?

    I dont see many machines with 2 linear rails on each side of the fixed axis (x or y)
    I ordered 2 rails per side, mostly because I want the gantry to have 12" of clearance, and I only gave myself enough room on the rails to space the blocks 8" outside to outside spacing. with such a short span and tall gantry(compared to my current machine) I am a little bit more worried about the gantry tilting forward and backwards.
    Am I wrong in wanting to use two rails per side on the long (X in my case) axis? they will both be on the outside face of the 6" side of the tube, 4" apart vertically.



  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3920
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    First in response to some other posts, you mentioned using 1/2 inch thick plates for what im assuming is the gantry supports. Frankly that seems a bit thin considering your desire to build a beefy machine.

    Second you can get all sorts of aluminum extrusions from the big metal suppliers like Ryerson ( if i spelt that right). The problem isn't sourcing the materials but rather paying for them. An 8" square extruded beam will not be cheap. I see you decided to go with steel, this will likely be a good move on your part.
    Quote Originally Posted by HoY View Post
    Decided to go with steel. Going to give it a shot without machining the surfaces the rails will be mounted to and see if there is any binding once its all together. If there is, it will all be bolted together so I can take it down and have the surfaces hit with a flycutter.
    You should be able to check the quality of the faces with a straight edge saving you from the trouble of assembly and taking down the machine. Often the faces on square beams are cupped concave though the can go convex. The problem is how much the faces are deformed varies widely with the supplier. Machining though can lead to stress relief distortion so you want to keep an eye on that.
    Going with 6 x 2 x 3/16 HSS for the frame and gantry, and will have the vertical posts cut on a water jet out of 1/2" plate.
    That seems to be a bit thin for a gantry beam, both in cross section and material thickness. Remember the gantry beam is only supported at the two ends and often ends up being the weak link in a machines design. As so 1/2 thick material for the supports seems to be very thing considering your stated goal to build a robust machine. You might want to consider buying one stick of 6 x 2 and using it for the gantry doubled up and also for the side supports. You will still need gussets and plates to spread out the X axis bearings.
    I was just about to complete my order for the clearpath servos when I stumbled across this https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/...nt=23292883718 while looking for a place to order them from Canada. This kit seems to be just as good an option, for less money and much more local to me. Anyone have any experience with these servos? would it be a mistake I would regret in the long run?
    There is no perfect stepper or servo system. Buy something with a good reputation and support.
    I dont see many machines with 2 linear rails on each side of the fixed axis (x or y)
    Probably because there is no significant advantage to doing so and more than a few disadvantages.
    I ordered 2 rails per side, mostly because I want the gantry to have 12" of clearance, and I only gave myself enough room on the rails to space the blocks 8" outside to outside spacing. with such a short span and tall gantry(compared to my current machine) I am a little bit more worried about the gantry tilting forward and backwards.
    .
    It will and frankly i don't see two rails helping out a lot here. That is seat of the pants engineering so take it or leave it. Somebody could go through the calculations but you would be better off spreading out the bearings saddles more than 8 inches. By the way 12" of clearance implies a much longer lever arm. Again the design matters here but your lever arm on the X bearings could easily end up being 20 inches.
    Am I wrong in wanting to use two rails per side on the long (X in my case) axis? they will both be on the outside face of the 6" side of the tube, 4" apart vertically.
    Im going to say yes? There are a number of reasons but the first one is one of installation. Being that close together requires near perfect mounting to prevent excessive wear and binding. THK and others have design guides that you can use to help understand the issues but in a nut shell the closer two rails are to each other, a higher quality of mounting is required.

    To get a rough idea imagine a one degree angle and its height at four inches and then at 4 feet. The same angular displacement requires a much larger linear displacement at four feet. Similarly your parallel alignment of the rails and the stiff coupling at 4 inches means that very little error in parallizm can be tolerated on parallel rails that close together.

    This highlights another issue the stiffer your machine the greater the precision that is required in fabrication. A gantry with a lot of flex can tolerate a greater amount of mis alignment in the X axis rails than a notably stiffer gantry can.

    This is where the discussion about machining steel comes into play. In an ideal world you will have a much stiffer router than is common. That stiffness leads to machining requirements and assembly techniques that are of higher precision. It isn't a question so much of can a touter machine steel but rather can you build such a machine robust enough to meet your expectations. Right now I'm not too sure you will meet your expectations with this build.



  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    First in response to some other posts, you mentioned using 1/2 inch thick plates for what im assuming is the gantry supports. Frankly that seems a bit thin considering your desire to build a beefy machine.

    Second you can get all sorts of aluminum extrusions from the big metal suppliers like Ryerson ( if i spelt that right). The problem isn't sourcing the materials but rather paying for them. An 8" square extruded beam will not be cheap. I see you decided to go with steel, this will likely be a good move on your part.

    You should be able to check the quality of the faces with a straight edge saving you from the trouble of assembly and taking down the machine. Often the faces on square beams are cupped concave though the can go convex. The problem is how much the faces are deformed varies widely with the supplier. Machining though can lead to stress relief distortion so you want to keep an eye on that.

    That seems to be a bit thin for a gantry beam, both in cross section and material thickness. Remember the gantry beam is only supported at the two ends and often ends up being the weak link in a machines design. As so 1/2 thick material for the supports seems to be very thing considering your stated goal to build a robust machine. You might want to consider buying one stick of 6 x 2 and using it for the gantry doubled up and also for the side supports. You will still need gussets and plates to spread out the X axis bearings.

    There is no perfect stepper or servo system. Buy something with a good reputation and support.

    Probably because there is no significant advantage to doing so and more than a few disadvantages.
    .
    It will and frankly i don't see two rails helping out a lot here. That is seat of the pants engineering so take it or leave it. Somebody could go through the calculations but you would be better off spreading out the bearings saddles more than 8 inches. By the way 12" of clearance implies a much longer lever arm. Again the design matters here but your lever arm on the X bearings could easily end up being 20 inches.

    Im going to say yes? There are a number of reasons but the first one is one of installation. Being that close together requires near perfect mounting to prevent excessive wear and binding. THK and others have design guides that you can use to help understand the issues but in a nut shell the closer two rails are to each other, a higher quality of mounting is required.

    To get a rough idea imagine a one degree angle and its height at four inches and then at 4 feet. The same angular displacement requires a much larger linear displacement at four feet. Similarly your parallel alignment of the rails and the stiff coupling at 4 inches means that very little error in parallizm can be tolerated on parallel rails that close together.

    This highlights another issue the stiffer your machine the greater the precision that is required in fabrication. A gantry with a lot of flex can tolerate a greater amount of mis alignment in the X axis rails than a notably stiffer gantry can.

    This is where the discussion about machining steel comes into play. In an ideal world you will have a much stiffer router than is common. That stiffness leads to machining requirements and assembly techniques that are of higher precision. It isn't a question so much of can a touter machine steel but rather can you build such a machine robust enough to meet your expectations. Right now I'm not too sure you will meet your expectations with this build.

    Let me clear up what I am talking about when I say "machining tool steel". im not talking about attacking a piece of half inch 62hrc bar stock with a 3/4 end mill at haas speeds. I'm talking about shallow 2d adaptive milling down 1/8 to 1/4 flat stock. and only rarely. Since the machine will mostly for sign making I'll not really want to refit it for steel that often.

    About the vertical support. Forgot to mention, the 1/2" plate will have a 2x2x1/4" hss tube fastened to the outside. I'm still learning fusion 360, otherwise I would have already drawn the whole thing up.

    The gantry will only span 33" between the two vertical supports, though it will extend past them by 7 inches per side to accommodate a much wider bearing spacing and will have two 25mm linear rails on it, as well as the 3" C channel rigidly mounted as a cable tray. If you still think it would flex a lot with all of that, what do you think of adding a 2x2x1/4 tube to the back side of the beam? The channel will be at the top back, 2x2 tube back middle and 2505 ball screw back bottom.

    The only reason I chose 3/16" thick tube for the frame, is that in my experience it is usually a much smoother and less deformed surface than 1/4" and thicker.
    And, I'm not sure how someone could mess up getting dual rails parallel when they are just 4" apart? They are only 1500mm long as well. My current plan is to put the side frames on my current table and use it to center drill the hole pattern, then finish them off on the drill press.



  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    926
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I can't help with finding larger (than 3" x 6") t-slot extrusions but these guys might be able to save you some time (or money) on machining mounting surfaces for your rails:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-thick-Pre...item36276b9b47

    I bought a few of their "precision flat cast aluminum tool plates" to provide a flat surface for mounting my rails. The thicker ones have flatness better than .005" which is probably better than many people could achieve on their own in a diy build. It's also a good start for those that need greater flatness than that. These things are FLAT!

    I am not suggesting that these plates be used instead of the aluminum extrusions but a 1" or 2" thick slab of flat aluminum 6061 bolted to the front of a decent sized steel or aluminum rectangle (or square) tube or even an I-beam would make a pretty stiff part (espiecially if the tubes or extrusions were filled).

    Btw, I have a few of these 15 series 80/20 3" x 6" x 36" aluminum T-slot extrusions and they are considerably stiffer than any other aluminum t-slot extrusions I have tested. I am fairly sure that, with enough of them and the right design, they could make a very rigid frame. To be as stiff as steel, aluminum parts just need to be approx 3 x thicker. I.e. If .25" steel plate was being replaced, a .75" aluminum 6061 plate would be comparable in stiffness (but not hardness).

    Still, with a $20,000 budget, it seems like you have more options than a diy project. You could buy a Tormach CNC mill like the 770 for your steel projects and a seperate CNC router with enough cutting space for your needs and still have a little change.



  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    A 770 is in the plan for two or three years down the road, but that's more along the lines of 30,000 CAD. Already contacted the Canadian distributor and got a quote with accessories and shipping. Also since I went with steel rather than aluminum, the frame will be dropping from 4000$ to about 1000, and switching to the other servos also shaved 2000$ off.



  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3920
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HoY View Post
    Let me clear up what I am talking about when I say "machining tool steel". im not talking about attacking a piece of half inch 62hrc bar stock with a 3/4 end mill at haas speeds. I'm talking about shallow 2d adaptive milling down 1/8 to 1/4 flat stock. and only rarely. Since the machine will mostly for sign making I'll not really want to refit it for steel that often.
    Yes that was my understanding, for the most part thin materials. Most likely your clean up passes would be with an end mill larger than 1/4" to get the best possible surface finishes on the edges. In such a case machine stiffness means more with respect to surface quality than it does hogging out material.
    About the vertical support. Forgot to mention, the 1/2" plate will have a 2x2x1/4" hss tube fastened to the outside. I'm still learning fusion 360, otherwise I would have already drawn the whole thing up.
    That will make a difference. As for Fusion 360 you are likely ahead of me there.
    The gantry will only span 33" between the two vertical supports, though it will extend past them by 7 inches per side to accommodate a much wider bearing spacing and will have two 25mm linear rails on it, as well as the 3" C channel rigidly mounted as a cable tray. If you still think it would flex a lot with all of that, what do you think of adding a 2x2x1/4 tube to the back side of the beam? The channel will be at the top back, 2x2 tube back middle and 2505 ball screw back bottom.
    I must have confused your machine with another as i thought this one had a larger span. However that just means that a square beam would be even stiffer.

    As for the 25mm rails they need rather robust mounting to really benefit from their size. To put it simply im not convinced your gantry is rigid enough to justify the large linear rails.

    As for attaching the C channel and 2x tubing it might help some if welded on but then you have another risk of distortion.
    The only reason I chose 3/16" thick tube for the frame, is that in my experience it is usually a much smoother and less deformed surface than 1/4" and thicker.
    Yes this is generally true. The thinner sheet metal grades of steel tubing are generally flatter on the faces. However 3/16" presents us with a couple of issues.
    1. If i remember correctly 25 mm linear rails mount with 6 mm screws that can lead to a screw holding problem in tapped holes in the beam. That can be addressed by buying tapped rails and using clearance holes in the beam or simply buying a beam that is thicker. The problem is made worse by any machining done on the surface.

    2. Thinner steel surfaces can resonate impacting finish and tool life.
    And, I'm not sure how someone could mess up getting dual rails parallel when they are just 4" apart?
    There was a thread a few months ago from a guy that tried to do such on T slotted extrusions. I forgot the specifics but i think he gave up and mounted the rails on some cold rolled bolted to the extrusions. I just dont want you to believe it will be a cake walk. You could get a beam with no imperfections across 4" or maybe one side has a little dip of a few tenths, enough to bind your bearings a bit.
    They are only 1500mm long as well. My current plan is to put the side frames on my current table and use it to center drill the hole pattern, then finish them off on the drill press.
    Well this is the challenge, finding which features are more important to you to support. If you want the tall Z axis then you need to build a machine to support it. That may mean building a larger machine or accepting a shorter X stroke.

    This whole discussion would be easy if we where making plans for a dedicated machine to do knife blades. Your gantry would only need a few inches of clearance over the table, maybe as little as four inches and likely could be a moving table design for a far stiffer gantry. With a multipurpose build you have to balance needs and maybe provide robustness that you don't need 99% of the time.



  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    Yes that was my understanding, for the most part thin materials. Most likely your clean up passes would be with an end mill larger than 1/4" to get the best possible surface finishes on the edges. In such a case machine stiffness means more with respect to surface quality than it does hogging out material.

    That will make a difference. As for Fusion 360 you are likely ahead of me there.

    I must have confused your machine with another as i thought this one had a larger span. However that just means that a square beam would be even stiffer.

    As for the 25mm rails they need rather robust mounting to really benefit from their size. To put it simply im not convinced your gantry is rigid enough to justify the large linear rails.

    As for attaching the C channel and 2x tubing it might help some if welded on but then you have another risk of distortion.

    Yes this is generally true. The thinner sheet metal grades of steel tubing are generally flatter on the faces. However 3/16" presents us with a couple of issues.
    1. If i remember correctly 25 mm linear rails mount with 6 mm screws that can lead to a screw holding problem in tapped holes in the beam. That can be addressed by buying tapped rails and using clearance holes in the beam or simply buying a beam that is thicker. The problem is made worse by any machining done on the surface.

    2. Thinner steel surfaces can resonate impacting finish and tool life.

    There was a thread a few months ago from a guy that tried to do such on T slotted extrusions. I forgot the specifics but i think he gave up and mounted the rails on some cold rolled bolted to the extrusions. I just dont want you to believe it will be a cake walk. You could get a beam with no imperfections across 4" or maybe one side has a little dip of a few tenths, enough to bind your bearings a bit.


    Well this is the challenge, finding which features are more important to you to support. If you want the tall Z axis then you need to build a machine to support it. That may mean building a larger machine or accepting a shorter X stroke.

    This whole discussion would be easy if we where making plans for a dedicated machine to do knife blades. Your gantry would only need a few inches of clearance over the table, maybe as little as four inches and likely could be a moving table design for a far stiffer gantry. With a multipurpose build you have to balance needs and maybe provide robustness that you don't need 99% of the time.

    I would love to make my own metal cnc mill rather than buying a tormach, but I really doubt I'd make it as well or for a price worth the effort.. I may do it anyway in a couple of years. For now, this machine will have to do. I like the idea of attaching a face plate to the three surfaces that get the linear rails, though that seller doesn't ship to Canada. I might look at some 1/2x6" cold rolled flat bar, and have some 25mm slots milled in 0.05" or so just for alignment. That part would be Easy to draw and have done in a production machine shop out of town for much less than locally.

    With a plate that large I could easily drill and tap 40+ holes in the 3/16 tube to fasten the plate to it securely, before attaching the rails to the plate. I want to completely avoid welding on the whole machine, strictly because once it's welded it's not adjustable, not disassembleable(English???) and will definitely warp.

    I ordered that electronics/servo set, and ordered all the rails and ball screws, as well as a 300mm Z axis from eBay. Though I'm going to run that axis backwards..



  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    926
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoY View Post
    A 770 is in the plan for two or three years down the road, but that's more along the lines of 30,000 CAD. Already contacted the Canadian distributor and got a quote with accessories and shipping. Also since I went with steel rather than aluminum, the frame will be dropping from 4000$ to about 1000, and switching to the other servos also shaved 2000$ off.

    That is surprising. The 770 starts at less than $7000 USD here. I was interested in using one of their spindle heads on my diy build as they are competitively priced but they were just too heavy for my design. I still have plans to maybe add a second lower speed spindle at some point.

    Does what you said above mean that you now have a lower target budget? $20,000 sounded like a lot for a small diy build even if it was Canadian dollars.

    I recommend taking a look look at the Datron website if you haven't already. They are an interesting brand for several reasons but mainly because they seem to defy all conventional advice by building high speed / low torque CNC routers for milling steel and aluminum. Their steel milling machines are a fraction of the weight of other comparably priced (and sized) steel milling CNC machines because of the type of spindles they use. Many people would turn their noses up at a steel mill with a 50,000rpm spindle with less than 1nm of torque but, apparently, they do a better job than many traditional CNC machining centers. Might be good for a little design inspiration for a diy project.



  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    That is surprising. The 770 starts at less than $7000 USD here. I was interested in using one of their spindle heads on my diy build as they are competitively priced but they were just too heavy for my design. I still have plans to maybe add a second lower speed spindle at some point.

    Does what you said above mean that you now have a lower target budget? $20,000 sounded like a lot for a small diy build even if it was Canadian dollars.

    I recommend taking a look look at the Datron website if you haven't already. They are an interesting brand for several reasons but mainly because they seem to defy all conventional advice by building high speed / low torque CNC routers for milling steel and aluminum. Their steel milling machines are a fraction of the weight of other comparably priced (and sized) steel milling CNC machines because of the type of spindles they use. Many people would turn their noses up at a steel mill with a 50,000rpm spindle with less than 1nm of torque but, apparently, they do a better job than many traditional CNC machining centers. Might be good for a little design inspiration for a diy project.
    That wasn't the starting price, that was a full sized educational kit, with freight from Ontario to Alberta. ATC, tool holders, cabinet, coolant setup,,, though even without the options it would still be almost 20,000 Canadian kopecks shipped.

    As for the target price of my build, I was basing it on the prices I was looking at for the components. The rails were almost 2000$, though I went for cheaper ones. Screws were almost 1000$ but I went with slightly cheaper. From aluminum to steel frame took me from almost 4000USD before shipping to less than 1000$ with no shipping. Steel price will go up a bit as the build progresses, but will still be much lower than the aluminum option. Clearpath servos? Yeah that option was 5000USD, the servos I just bought, that are 100% comparable, and actually on paper more accurate were 2200$ usd for the whole set. At this rate I should come in well under 10,000$ assuming I don't go bankrupt buying 2000 machine screws!



  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    Heres my order list so far:

    4x 1500mm rails C $768.60
    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-sets-HGR25...72.m2749.l2649

    2x 1200mm rails C $345.75
    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-sets-HGR25...72.m2749.l2649

    2x 1500mm 2505 screws C $681.34
    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/RM2505-1500m...72.m2749.l2649

    1x 1200mm 2505 screw C $210.02
    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/RM2505-1200m...72.m2749.l2649

    1x 300mm Z Axis C $446.93
    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/250-50kg-Sli...72.m2749.l2649

    1x 4 Axis 0.75kW DYN2 AC Servo CNC System (with 5m cables instead of 3, and NEMA 34 frame instead of 86mm) C
    $2,864.12
    https://store.dmm-tech.com/products/...nt=23292883718

    Will be moving my spindle and vfd from current machine, which is basically brand new only having been used for about 6 hours total since I purchased it a few months ago.

    Total ordered parts so far: $5811.55 CAD

    steel is being bought locally, and the one 2x6x3/16 is another 230$, but coming with a bunch of other steel to build the whole support table underneath the CNC table.

    edit:

    23" touch screen monitor for the control PC C 379.99
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Wireless Keyboard C 24.81
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Arm for monitor C 89.99
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    not specifically for the machine build, but part of the overall system. Going to buy a new pc to run it as well, and the laptop that runs the current machine will be sold with it when I sell that in the coming months. I think I'll edit this post as I order parts to keep a tally.

    Last edited by HoY; 12-22-2017 at 08:59 PM.


  19. #19
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    You are aware that those are not Hiwin rails, but chinese knockoffs? Which is why they are so cheap.

    I dont see many machines with 2 linear rails on each side of the fixed axis (x or y).....................................Am I wrong in wanting to use two rails per side on the long (X in my case) axis.
    Yes, you are wrong. You don't see any, because they aren't needed. A single rail with 2 bearings can carry loads of several thousand pounds.
    If you're pair of rails are not aligned within .001-.002" or better, they may bind, and wear prematurely.

    Imo, the DMM servos (or just about any AC servos) are a better choice than the Clearpaths. More powerful, and much cheaper.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

    I'll stick with one pair of rails then for now. I'll have a spare set I guess. Like I said, I have 1500mm rails, and I want about 48.5" of workable space, that leaves me 10.8551181 outside to outside on the linear bearings, I would prefer to go a bit smaller, say 9.5" to give some wiggle room.. hopefully that gives enough support...



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?

Extruded Aluminum larger than 3"x6"?