Teaching CAD/CAM to the poor in The Philippines

[ger21]

And you don't need an actual machine to do this. There are numerous simulators available, or you could use controls like Mach3 or UCCNC in demo mode. Load the g-code, and see the movement in the toolpath display.

[wizard]

Don't worry Switcher, this is for me, so I can get few months ahead before starting, and plan my course.
Besides a brief explanation of cnc and cam, I will be concentrating on making them proficient in CAD first. I may give them a teaser just to show how CAD can be made into CAM and thus making the object we drew (CAM simulated until we get our machine).

Im not sure if you have the correct understanding of how CAD / CAM and G - Code are related. CAM sits between CAD the design process and a controller processing G Code on a machine. Your CAM software processes the CAD file and delivers a G Code file. If you want to see that G Code in action you need a G code processor that can run in emulation mode.

Now in understand that Fusion 360 integrates a lot if these capabilities into one package. I still think it is important for students to be able to distinguish what is going on as separate processes.

I have no intention of teaching them manual G code in the begining. After all, we may not even have a machine at the startup.

That is fine but why not just focus on CAD and leave CAM and machine operation out of the class room? Keep the class focused instead of trying to cover too much material.

As for G Code and manual machine operation i have to agree with some of the other posters in that there is much value in learning to write your own code. That needs to be combined with basic machine operational skills. For me anyways i have to ask; how does a student truly understand CAM if they don't understand the language of the machine tool. It is sorta like having a computer translate English into German. The computer might do a wonderful job or screw it up completely, if you don't understand a little German you will never know.

I think you may not understand that this is rural Philippines. None of our students will have a PC or laptop at home.

This isn't hard at all to understand, it is very much the way i grew up. However this just highlights that you don't want to take on more than the students can digest at one time. Ask yourself this, how much class room time will you have to devote to passing on general computer skills? This is a serious question because those basic computer skills are a must for a student to be successful in industry. Just teaching students about the file system, the storage, organization and management of files could take a day or two.

It is your students very lack of exposure to tech that has me believing that you may be trying to accomplish too much in one class. Beyond that learning CAD doesn't really teach you about machine design. I keep coming back to what the local community college offers as a 1 year certificate program in CAD technologies. There is a lot to learn just in respect to running the CAD software especially if you want to get under surface knowledge.

It is very hard to explain to those not living here, or those who have never lived anywhere other than a fully developed country.

Actually it isn't hard at all to understand. I grew up never seeing a computer but reading everything i could about them. I remember seeing the first adds for Apples computer, and the feeling of how unattainable such a machine was. The local school district had nothing even when i graduated high school and i certainly didn't have the cash to buy one.

Now you will have students of similar lack of access but possibly with differing levels of interests in computer tech. The guys with a strong interest are likely to adapt quickly but those with a passing interest will take some time to handle basic computer operation. So you have to ask yourself how much class room time is needed to cover basic operating system needs for students that have never touched a computer before. Id go so far as to say you will need a basic computer skills class before you start in on CAD.

These basic skills are important, especially understanding the file system and file handling. In a factory it isn't impossible to end up having to load machines via sneaker net and even your router might end up running of an SD card.

I hope i don't come off as negative as i really think you have a great idea here. I just see it as a task that is more involved than you have imagined. This is mainly do with overcoming basic skills related to computers and getting students to understand the design concepts.

[louieatienza]

Im not sure if you have the correct understanding of how CAD / CAM and G - Code are related. CAM sits between CAD the design process and a controller processing G Code on a machine. Your CAM software processes the CAD file and delivers a G Code file. If you want to see that G Code in action you need a G code processor that can run in emulation mode.

Now in understand that Fusion 360 integrates a lot if these capabilities into one package. I still think it is important for students to be able to distinguish what is going on as separate processes.

Even though this stuff's integrated into Fusion360, they're still separate processes. Whether you do it in one or 3 programs is irrelevant.

That is fine but why not just focus on CAD and leave CAM and machine operation out of the class room? Keep the class focused instead of trying to cover too much material.

Didn't you say before that the curriculum should be broad?

As for G Code and manual machine operation i have to agree with some of the other posters in that there is much value in learning to write your own code. That needs to be combined with basic machine operational skills. For me anyways i have to ask; how does a student truly understand CAM if they don't understand the language of the machine tool. It is sorta like having a computer translate English into German. The computer might do a wonderful job or screw it up completely, if you don't understand a little German you will never know.

The computer doesn't screw up; it only does what the human tells it to do. If the translation to German was wrong, it almost is guaranteed it is a problem with the translation algorithm, not because the computer is having a bad day or got lazy! I do agree that learning g-code is valuable, but I disagree that it is the end-all be-all that some here make it out to be. For these kids to be competitive they will have to learn to work with more and more complex parts, where doing it by hand would be ridiculous; though it's handy for debugging.

This isn't hard at all to understand, it is very much the way i grew up. However this just highlights that you don't want to take on more than the students can digest at one time. Ask yourself this, how much class room time will you have to devote to passing on general computer skills? This is a serious question because those basic computer skills are a must for a student to be successful in industry. Just teaching students about the file system, the storage, organization and management of files could take a day or two.

It is your students very lack of exposure to tech that has me believing that you may be trying to accomplish too much in one class. Beyond that learning CAD doesn't really teach you about machine design. I keep coming back to what the local community college offers as a 1 year certificate program in CAD technologies. There is a lot to learn just in respect to running the CAD software especially if you want to get under surface knowledge.

A day or two is not to big a price to pay for accustoming someone to the general walk-though of an OS. I really don't understand the negativity toward the OPs curriculum. With new programs, it takes some adjusting, on the fly a lot of times, to get the curriculum to where it works. Keep in mind that they do have TV and internet cafes and cell phones in the Philippines, so it's not like people there are not exposed to technology.

Actually it isn't hard at all to understand. I grew up never seeing a computer but reading everything i could about them. I remember seeing the first adds for Apples computer, and the feeling of how unattainable such a machine was. The local school district had nothing even when i graduated high school and i certainly didn't have the cash to buy one.

Now you will have students of similar lack of access but possibly with differing levels of interests in computer tech. The guys with a strong interest are likely to adapt quickly but those with a passing interest will take some time to handle basic computer operation. So you have to ask yourself how much class room time is needed to cover basic operating system needs for students that have never touched a computer before. Id go so far as to say you will need a basic computer skills class before you start in on CAD.

These basic skills are important, especially understanding the file system and file handling. In a factory it isn't impossible to end up having to load machines via sneaker net and even your router might end up running of an SD card.

I hope i don't come off as negative as i really think you have a great idea here. I just see it as a task that is more involved than you have imagined. This is mainly do with overcoming basic skills related to computers and getting students to understand the design concepts.

Again I think it is you who is over-complicating and over-thinking this scenario. Learning CAD will automatically force to teach how the operating system works. Most all CAD/CAM (and most all software for that matter) use the same top menu bar with the drop down menu items that most all Windows programs use - even many of the shortcut keys from almost 40 years ago. You teach how to save a file in CAD - it's the same as saving a file in Word or Excel.

Your description of what has to be done is very similar to Xeno's paradox. If every step was broken down to half-step, and those in half, repeated ad-nauseum, you never reach the finish line. It's very simple. It's a program that is an intro to CAD design, using one software. Then it segues into an introduction to CAM, which conveniently is the same software. Teaching someone to turn on a computer, open the software, use it, save files, transfer it to removable media, shut off the computer... Once you do it with CAD, you can do it with any software. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for life.

[StarApple]

Im not sure if you have the correct understanding of how CAD / CAM and G - Code are related.

Now that is another big statement that is not only totally incorrect, but slightly insulting. I am no expert on it, but I am sure most of us here could write a bit of code, run it on a RS Pi, and have it do something physical on a bread board with LEDS and relays/motors

I think some of you are making comments without reading much of this thread.
Some are making comments without even reading the heading 'Teaching CAD/CAM to the poor in The Philippines'

This isn't hard at all to understand, it is very much the way i grew up.

So you lived in the Philippines, or you think it is now, what it was like when you were growing up in the US? I can assure you you can never understand what it is like unless you come here. I will bring you to the dumpsite where we feed the children daily. I will show you where we buried 2 children this past year. Believe me Sir, it is not like The US 30 years ago.

So you have to ask yourself how much class room time is needed to cover basic operating system needs for students that have never touched a computer before. Id go so far as to say you will need a basic computer skills class before you start in on CAD.

There is basic computer class in most high schools. There are also short Tesda courses in different aspects of computing. Tesda is government run.

I hope i don't come off as negative as i really think you have a great idea here.

Not at all, and thank you

[StarApple]

You can't teach people to fish with a very complicated bait setup.

YOu have to make it simple so they can set the hook very soon.

You can set the hook with them by letting them write a line of Gcode and seeing the machine MOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

Don, the proposed program is CAD/CAM as per heading of this thread. We also hope to put together a machine, and hopefully some students will be able to see and understand that.

[StarApple]

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for life.

That statement is very relevant in what we have done here in the past and will do in the future, except sometimes we do have to give them fish, literally.
You, as a person who knows The Philippines, we are 100 km due south of Tacloban, so we have had our share of disasters.

[louieatienza]

That statement is very relevant in what we have done here in the past and will do in the future, except sometimes we do have to give them fish, literally.
You, as a person who knows The Philippines, we are 100 km due south of Tacloban, so we have had our share of disasters.

My mother came from Gairan, Bogo, Cebu, and they were hit by Yolanda, but not at the extent as Tacloban. My aunt still lives in my great grandparents' home, which was one of the oldest surviving structures in their village, though Yolanda tore half of it apart. Typhoon vs. bamboo and straw... But it's very weird, even for me, to see such homes with computers and even TVs sometimes.

[StarApple]

My mother came from Gairan, Bogo, Cebu, and they were hit by Yolanda, but not at the extent as Tacloban. My aunt still lives in my great grandparents' home, which was one of the oldest surviving structures in their village, though Yolanda tore half of it apart. Typhoon vs. bamboo and straw... But it's very weird, even for me, to see such homes with computers and even TVs sometimes.

Yes. After it left Leyte Island it headed straight for North Cebu. The aftermath was life changing for me. Here is a youtube: OJoCqRetVhg

Anyway, back to the job on hand. Our partners in Germany are very keen to go ahead with this project. I will have conference call next week, where we will finalize everything. I do have to find a suitable premises, and then I can get the ball rolling. We were offered a discount of the Kompas H 1000. It may only have supported rails, but it is a well put together machine. Many of the Chinese machines have poor quality bearings and electric. We will do the electrical ourselves, with good parts. Maybe Centroid will give us an Acorn board. Anyway, I would like the students to see the cnc electronics being put together.