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  1. #1
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    Default First DIY Router design

    Hi,

    I've been lurking here for a few months and decided about two weeks ago to make my own router.
    But as any first-timer, I would appreciate any suggestion to the design I've got so far.
    My milling volume is 900x700x215 mm extrusion frame router. Total outer dimensions 1300x1150x780mm.

    Mechanical:
    40x80 mm Basic Alu extrusion (bottom in X)
    80x80 mm Heavy Alu extrusion (bottom Y)
    40x120 mm Basic Alu extrusion (X Gantry)

    16 mm ball screws from BST Automation - SFU16 ball nut with holder/housing.
    BK/BF/FF/FK bearings from BST
    15 mm Hiwin Linear rails with flanged carriages from BST

    Red plates - 19 mm 6062 Aluminium, water cut 20mm plates milled to 19mm
    Green plates - 10 mm 6062 Aluminium water cut

    Electronics & Software:

    UCCNC
    UC300 Eth
    4Nm Nema 23 PRO kit from CNC4YOU.co.uk
    2.2 kW Air-cooled, er25 collet spindle + VFD
    3 x inductive proximity sensors for homing
    6 x Omron limit switches
    2 x Emergency switch

    My choice for electronics is to minimize self-inflicted electronic errors (i.e. my lack of knowledge). I'm a mechanical engineer, unfortunately with low electric knowledge.
    I chose the 2.2kW spindle to minimize errors that could happen with water. I'd rather have it a bit louder than problems with pumps, blockages and so on.
    The Nema kit looks quite good to me with low inductance motors, relatively cheap and within EU (tax-related). 4Nm feels more than enough.


    Total weight, roughly 80 kg. Moving parts (X+Z+spindle) - 44kg
    Budget: Roughly $3000

    Purpose/use will be milling wood, and aluminium mainly. This will not be a production machine but a machine that will run a few times a month.
    Accuracy is more important than speed to me.
    I have some access to a mechanical workshop but is more or less limited to flat pieces. I've been thinking of making parts as the router is done to replace. Especially as the center of the tool will stand 162 mm from the gantry (X).

    Problems I fear is the X axis not being stable enough, wiggling from side to side during fast acceleration/forces while cutting.

    Any comment on either mechanical or electronics is appreciated!




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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-iso-jpg   First DIY Router design-side-jpg   First DIY Router design-front-jpg   First DIY Router design-backiso-jpg  



  2. #2
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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    For a very light duty machine it might be passable. A few minor changes though coild have a big impact on usability. For example:

    1. For the X axis make the frame ladder like and employ plenty of angle braces an gussets.

    2. Make the gantry beam out of one large box section. If not that at the very least tie the two beams together with some plate material.

    3. The plate material for the gantry up rights may be a bit thin. Prefer thicker material or box sections. Even though you indicated 19mm they just look thin in the drawings.

    4. The X-Axis bearings need to be spread out more and yes that implies redesigned side plate to hold up the gantry ( item 3 above). It also implies longer X-axis components. In this case though i really think you need to address this design element because the bearings appear to be way to close in your drawings.

    5. Use plenty of gussets and corner braces. For the most part you need to supplement joints on T-Slot systems or have them come loose over time.

    6. You seem to have a focus on weight which is generally a bad idea in these machines. Mass impacts vibrations but maybe more importantly walking of the machine. Unless you have very strong portability needs id make the base as heavy as possible keeping your budget reasonable.

    7. Im not sure your concerns about a water cooled spindle even make sense. There are many issues associated with air cooled spindles. It just seems like you dismissed a water cooled spindle rather early.

    As for machining aluminum I'm not sure the above suggestions will even get you there. It depends upon what you mean by machining aluminum, but even after considering the suggestions above it would still be a light weight machine for any aluminum machining.

    If you are on your first design the machine isn't that bad, i just prefer to see something a bit more robust. This especially if aluminum is in the game as the current design wont cut the mustard for anything but the lightest and lowest quality aluminum machining. The machine has the common weaknesses in the gantry and with general robustness.



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    As well as Wizard's sound advice I'd add one more thing. This design is unstable side-to-side because you've elevated the gantry on those plates, in order to give yourself some head-room. Instead of that, consider elevating the whole assembly by raising the height of the walls the gantry rolls on, and shortening the side plates to the bottom of the Y-beam. The walls can be as heavy as they want, since they don't need to move, and your gantry will both weigh less and be more stable.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Thank you both for your replies! All good tips and I realized that I rushed through my design way to quickly. The

    I've updated my CAD just now but still have some motor mounts and home/limit switches left to assemble. So far the changes are:

    - Raising the side walls from 80->160 mm which lowers the side plates and its moment arm.
    - I've put made the gantry into a box section with 6 mm aluminium plates on both sides and corner braces in between the gantry extrusions.
    - The sides has also been shaped as a box section with two 19 mm plates 21 mm apart, leaving the total thickness of 60 mm.
    - X bearings has also been spread out, now sitting at 160 mm c-c.

    Total weight is now just above 105kg. The CNC will later be put on a heavy steel frame to dampen vibrations and increase stability.

    Any comments on the machine are much appreciated!


    Red - 19mm , Green 10mm, yellow 6mm, grey 5mm.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-side-jpg   First DIY Router design-front-jpg   First DIY Router design-back-jpg   First DIY Router design-iso-jpg  

    First DIY Router design-isof-jpg  


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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Nice,

    I like the changes you've made. Your new design looks very similar in many ways to what I'm building out of steel tube.

    I wouldn't worry about the parts being too heavy. When you do the math, adding a bunch of weight doesn't make as much as a difference as you might think, because you still have the ball screw and motor inertias regardless of the gantry weight. Plus there are two motors on the gantry buy only one on the Y axis.

    If the choice is between 5mm lead and 10mm lead on the ballscrews, then use 10mm. I word it that way because perhaps even 20mm is a better choice. That's a common size also in 20mm OD, 2020. But, I would really need to look at the math on that to give good advice. Looks like you are using nema 23's?

    So, my two suggestions.

    1. I really don't like the tube offsets for the motors. Can you make it so that they mount directly to the bracket? Perhaps that's just my bias, but I don't see the small tubes handling torsion well. I am using SYK mounts on my build, but those are pricey. I have to think it's not much work to modify it so the motors can mount directly to the bracket?

    2. The cross supports are not tall enough IMO. Also, you could extend them to put gussets on the outside. I doubled the thickness of the cross supports and drew some triangles for gussets to illustrate what I mean.

    Of course, those are just my suggestions, really, your design is much better now from what it was before.

    I don't see any value added in a large steel frame for this after you have built this top part. You could make an underframe out of 4x4's, and it will probably be just as good.

    Nice work so far.

    And one last thing. How heavy will the Z axis be including all of the parts that move up and down? If you want to include a pneumatic counterbalance, now is the time to incorporate it into the design.

    First DIY Router design-suggestion-1-jpg



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    I'm liking this also. The only thing I'd verify is that the angle brackets internal to the table area don't encroach on your desired working area. Of course the plywood or whatever you put in there for a work surfaces will raising things up enough to reclaim some of that space.

    While it is hard to tell 100% from the renderings one thing I'd look at closely is the supports associated with the leadscrew drive. Make sure they are robust enough not to twist or deform.

    Looks like you are well on your way to a good build.



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Thank you for your comments. Changes that's been made since last time:

    - I've changed the tube offset to the motors to more rigid parts.
    - Added a plate on top of Z for a motor mount
    - All sensors, 3x inductive and 6 micro switches has been added to the CAD to ensure that no clashes will appear late on. This also ment 4-5 extra small pieces for the sensor to activate against.
    - Made a groove in the spindle plate making it 6 mm closer to the X-axis. Lowering the moment arm.
    - Went through every cad file again to make sure there's no clashes, no missing holes or wrong dimensions.

    It's very difficult to predict the forces in the supports to the leadscrew but i will try to ensure that that does not happen.
    There will be two layers of MDF/Plywood (hopefully vacuum table) that will cover most of the angle brackets on the bottom so i dont belive that will be a problem.




    I've also ordered all extrusions, most of the screws, 30 kg's of stock aluminium and some mounts. Also asked for quotations for watercutting some plates (green in picture).
    Also managed to make a few drawings so I hope to manufacture the first parts this weekend.
    The "real" manufacturing will begin late next week i hope. I will keep you updated with pictures or something...

    Budget will most likely be exceeded, now looking more towards the $4000 mark.

    So far the budget looks like this:
    - Extrusions, raw aluminium, screws, waterjet cutting - $1300
    - Motors, drivers, breakout boards, sensors, cables - $800
    - Spindle, vfd, collets + some extras - $500
    - Ball screws, nema mounts, holders, linear rails - $1200

    A bit more expensive but I believe it's worth making it right the first time.
    I'll try to update as much as I can, using this sort of like a log of the build for myself.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-assembly_cad_17-09-10_revision-2-jpg  


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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Quote Originally Posted by nikdan View Post
    Thank you for your comments. Changes that's been made since last time:

    - I've changed the tube offset to the motors to more rigid parts.
    - Added a plate on top of Z for a motor mount
    - All sensors, 3x inductive and 6 micro switches has been added to the CAD to ensure that no clashes will appear late on. This also ment 4-5 extra small pieces for the sensor to activate against.
    - Made a groove in the spindle plate making it 6 mm closer to the X-axis. Lowering the moment arm.
    - Went through every cad file again to make sure there's no clashes, no missing holes or wrong dimensions.

    It's very difficult to predict the forces in the supports to the leadscrew but i will try to ensure that that does not happen.
    There will be two layers of MDF/Plywood (hopefully vacuum table) that will cover most of the angle brackets on the bottom so i dont belive that will be a problem.




    I've also ordered all extrusions, most of the screws, 30 kg's of stock aluminium and some mounts. Also asked for quotations for watercutting some plates (green in picture).
    Also managed to make a few drawings so I hope to manufacture the first parts this weekend.
    The "real" manufacturing will begin late next week i hope. I will keep you updated with pictures or something...

    Budget will most likely be exceeded, now looking more towards the $4000 mark.

    So far the budget looks like this:
    - Extrusions, raw aluminium, screws, waterjet cutting - $1300
    - Motors, drivers, breakout boards, sensors, cables - $800
    - Spindle, vfd, collets + some extras - $500
    - Ball screws, nema mounts, holders, linear rails - $1200

    A bit more expensive but I believe it's worth making it right the first time.
    I'll try to update as much as I can, using this sort of like a log of the build for myself.
    Sorry, but I don't like this design. I would make the beam as wide as the fixed part of the Z plate and separate the horizontal slide much more. Of course, this means a much higher side plates as well. I would also move the screw from the top to between the two rails, as near the bottom as you can or feel comfortable with. It is better if the screw is as near as possible to the table, not as far away as possible.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


  9. #9
    ericks
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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Looking good all the best with your build. I am also busy with a build, mine will be way over budget so its going to be a slow process...



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Sorry, but I don't like this design. I would make the beam as wide as the fixed part of the Z plate and separate the horizontal slide much more. Of course, this means a much higher side plates as well. I would also move the screw from the top to between the two rails, as near the bottom as you can or feel comfortable with. It is better if the screw is as near as possible to the table, not as far away as possible.
    Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, plates are ordered and the design will not be changed.
    I could upgrade my machine later by separating the two X rails ~40 mm more for roughly $50 (from 160mm to ~200mm). I should have thought about that earlier, it would have been a $20 upgrade at most. Thanks for bringing that up.
    However, I most likely will not separate them to match the entire Z plate.
    As I've not yet started to manufacture I will add extra holes to prepare the plates for an eventual upgrade.


    About the ball-screw I chose to not have it in between the extrusions as it will no longer be a square beam which is a much stronger structure than an I-beam/U-beam.
    If I still would have the square beam and ball screws between the extrusions I would need to push the spindle outwards which would increase my momentum arm by probably 15%. Which I believe is far far worse.
    I also don't see the problem with having the ball screw higher up. Except for the weight, i.e. center of mass? Is there any other problem?


    ericks: Thanks! All the best to you too! I thought I had a good estimate on what most of the parts would cost but I was way off! Who would have thought that you needed cables for $100!
    27% over budget right now.



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Looks pretty good to me, should be a nice and capable machine!

    Ballscrew location on the X perhaps isn't ideal, but unlikely to prove a problem in reality given you've got nice proper linear rails.

    Another option to improve rigidity is to flip the Z-axis around, so that carriages are fixed and rails travel. It has its own limitations in terms of ability to pick the tool up above the gantry clearance height for long tools and tall work pieces, but apparently is quite the improvement as regards rigidity and is the route I have chosen to go now after it was suggested to me. Perhaps too late now given you've ordered the plates.

    Look forward to seeing the machine come to life!



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Some quick updates.

    I'm still waiting for the material I ordered. They seam to be really slow.
    Meanwhile I've:
    - Put about 80 orders on Aliexpress for buttons, LEDs, PSUs, tools, deburringtools, dails, indicators, gauges.... the list is long.
    - 3D printed some sensor mounts, and manufactured the sensors trigger plates
    - Received the water jet cut plates



    I also managed to borrow some aluminium from a friend and had a nice weekend in the workshop. The two plates on each side that's mounted to the Y-carriages are done!



    It feels good to have started and hope to get the material in the start of next week. Hopefully I will be able to prepare all water cut plates before that.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-img_2226-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2200-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2202-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2227-jpg  



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Hey everyone,

    Since last time I've fixed a lot of small plates for bearings, fixed all water cut plates with threads and surface finish, mounts etc.

    My material finally arrived on Thursday which meant a full weekend down in the workshop basement.
    As I began to get some part together I got a feeling of how big it will eventually be, and it feels great!






    As of now I'm about to purchase the spindle and VFD, and it looks to be a 3kW spindle instead. Why? It's 30 bucks more so I don't see a point not to upgrade. The VFD is rated 4kW which means I could upgrade later if I find it necessary!
    Also I'm looking at the rails. I've found that the price of non-HiWiN rails is considerably lower. I've also been thinking of upgrading the long Y-axis to 20 mm to be able to handle a bit more lateral force.

    I've realized that it's not that much left to do in the workshop. I hope to finalize the side-plates next time, mill the rest of the extrusions and manufacture Z plate and spindle plate. Should be a total of 2-3 days more in the workshop.
    It feel's really good as we are moving up north, close to the pole circle, in november. There I don't have access to a workshop which means I need to be done with all mechanical parts before that...
    I hope to update again in about a week, this week will be dedicated to finalize the drawings and decide on the exact spindle/rails and order those. The first stuff from China has also arrived, it's like Christmas every day!

    Any comments or ideas regarding the rails is appreciated!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-img_2232-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2232-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2235-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2237-jpg  

    First DIY Router design-img_2240-jpg  
    Last edited by nikdan; 10-02-2017 at 04:37 PM.


  14. #14

    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Looking good!



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    You've already drilled holes to mount the plates to the T slot. For mounting the rails, you would want to mount them through the plate, or you have to tap the plate. Doesn't look like the bolts (socket head cap screws) you have already used are countersunk. This could make things harder.

    You could mount your rails through the the plate, but here you have to match the hole spacing with the rails. Looks like you will be drilling some new holes in the plate to match the holes in the linear rails. Mine are 60mm apart. What are yours? If you drill out some through holes in the plate at the appropriate spacings, you could use T nuts to attach the rails and plate to the extrusions at the same time.

    Can you add some ribs in the inside of your gantry?

    I have heard good things about epoxy granite filling, but don't know how much it would weigh to fill all those voids. Figure it out, how much would it weigh?



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Thanks, fretman!



    Quote Originally Posted by NIC 77 View Post
    You've already drilled holes to mount the plates to the T slot. For mounting the rails, you would want to mount them through the plate, or you have to tap the plate. Doesn't look like the bolts (socket head cap screws) you have already used are countersunk. This could make things harder.

    You could mount your rails through the the plate, but here you have to match the hole spacing with the rails. Looks like you will be drilling some new holes in the plate to match the holes in the linear rails. Mine are 60mm apart. What are yours? If you drill out some through holes in the plate at the appropriate spacings, you could use T nuts to attach the rails and plate to the extrusions at the same time.

    Can you add some ribs in the inside of your gantry?

    I have heard good things about epoxy granite filling, but don't know how much it would weigh to fill all those voids. Figure it out, how much would it weigh?
    Yes I realized that I made an error on the front plates with the spacing of the holes (looked at the wrong drawing) just as I was leaving the workshop last night. Luckily it is possible to add new holes without crashing with any existing ones and should be a quick fix.
    I will mount the rails through the plates into the T-slots. Or rather mounts the rails through the plates and T-nuts and steer the plates into the extrusions.

    I will have two gussets/triangles at each end of the extrusions in the gantry to add stiffness. I consider adding some ribs in the middle, but I might wait with that as I can add it later.
    Current CAD weight is about 105kgs. Epoxy filling where? In the extrusions? I will do some research, thanks!



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    New update!

    As of lately all weekends has been dedicated to building this CNC. My girlfriend is not as excited as I am for some reason... Anyhow, I sent her away for the weekend so I could finish some more in the workshop.
    Since last time I fixed the side plates, and even redesigned them a bit while manufacturing them. I realized that "designing" them to look good is totally useless, so they will stay all square and booring. Makes the CNC look a bit more robust tho'.



    I boxed in the side plates with 6mm aluminium and fixed the front plate so match the rails hole spacing. All extrusions have been milled flat to the correct length and threaded at the ends. Some also got a slot to insert nuts later if necessary!
    Left to be done is Z-plate (hopefully tomorrow) and spindle plate, which I will have to redesign a bit when I get the spindle.


    I've also been receiving a lot of small packages from China which is fun, mostly electronic stuff. Buttons, plugs and cables mostly. Also cutting fluid spray system. Which was nice so I can incorporate that into the design before actually manufacturing the plates. I hope to place it on the spindle plate. I also bought a nice used electronic cabinet from eBay. Not the nicest looking thing but it had both din-rails and cable rails so I got lazy. I will wait to purchase the motors, drivers, BoB and such until after I move north. I doubt I will have time to fix that before.


    Still haven't decided on the rails. I will also order them after we've settled down after the move. Any suggestions are appreciated!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First DIY Router design-img_2245-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2251_1-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2252-jpg   First DIY Router design-img_2253-jpg  



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Yes, ribs inside the gantry tube. Yes, epoxy granite inside the tube and extrusion voids. Figure out what it would weigh. Perhaps high density polyurethane instead, I don't know, that is only four lbs per cubic foot. Epoxy is what, 80 lbs per cubic foot? 6" x 6" x 5' = 1.25, that's only 100 lbs.

    I am thinking about the build that linux_fan did and his comments about how much better the machine performed on aluminum after filling the gantry with epoxy granite. Not sure what particulate goes best with the epoxy. Also not saying you will achieve the same level of performance as him, I'm sure that you won't, his was a much higher budget machine, but you might make something fairly decent that can hold it's own with some light aluminum cutting and is better than most machines.

    I did some graphs in this thread for someone else, but sounds like you are doing something similar. Might help you to pick a ballscrew lead.

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...45126-cnc.html

    Had a quick look at your motors, 4Nm seems alot for Nema 23s. More power than the ones I did graphs for, but I have not seen a torque vs speed for your motors. The CAD weight of 105kgs, what is that for? The entire gantry assembly or the entire machine? If your all up gantry weight is 300 lbs, that should be just fine. For the rest of the machine, it doesn't move, as long as two people can carry the pieces where they need to go, it doesn't matter. What pitch ballscrew? I'm guessing 20mm lead might be for you.

    I agree with A_Camera that it is better to have the ballscrew between the rails, even closer to the lower rail, however I'm not certain how critical it is. Many rack and pinion machines do very well and are driven from gear racks mounted on top of the gantry. You have already started building, I think you will be fine for your intended purposes. Already you have changed your design so much in a good direction.

    I would mount the rails for the Z to the plate and have the bearings stationary, that will help to spread the bearings out a bit further. Also I would add some beefy steel angle iron to the Z plate. Also, I'd consider what more you can do to stop the tall narrow T slot on the sides from twisting.

    Really, nice work so far. Looking good.



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    For the linear rails, any good quality square ones should do. I bought my bosch rexroth ones locally at a big discount, and they are very nice. All I'm really saying here is not to use the round ones.

    For the ballscrews, I have good things to say about BST automation on Aliexpress, but it depends on your budget. If you want to pay twice as much, the option for made in Taiwan ballscrews is also there. I assume your design will require custom lengths and end machining? You have alot of options.



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    Default Re: First DIY Router design

    Thanks NIC,

    I haven't decided on pitch yet, but I will purchase them from BST.
    What I wounder is to use the HiWiN linear rails from BST or BLH rails from BST.
    105 kgs is the total weight of the entire assembly. These are the motors I'm buying.

    I got some more time in the workshop today and finished the Z plate (Thank god for HeliCoils!). Good tip with the steel mounting on the Z plate, NIC, I added a few holes for a stiffener in the back. It will fit between the Zplate and rails. I will see what I can do with the side's hopefully I can add some there as well.
    Only spindle plate left now which will be done as I get the spindle from Germany (through AliExpress).




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