CNC router build

[fretman_2]

LOL...bribe. Well, I've made my wife jewelry boxes and wooden bracelets with my CNC machine. I've also attempted to integrate the CNC in some of the craft things she does.

Yes, women can be so unsympathetic when it comes to your needs.........I suppose a "bribe" in the form of 10% of all you make could sweeten things a bit........no?.......well 100% then, but you first have to have a shed to work in......"you is gonna need quite a few product lines to swing that one over my dear"......they are so unsympathetic.

A year or so back I bought a tin 2M X 3M shed on EBAY for about $350 to store some excess baggage (junk) while we did some house revitalising.....it's still there under the carport, so's the boxes of junk and at last count a million Redbacks too.

So there you have it, a solution, but it comes with strings attached......no fag or beer money for a year, no Mackers or KFC's and you do the washing up and drying up too.........piece of cake.......out in the shed all night making chips and the money is pouring in.

Now if you can get the "Boss" to make some simple ornament thingos when the machine is up and running .....at your guidance.....you might get that brickie yet......such subterfuge.
Ian. .

[handlewanker]

Hi,........I can't think of any hobby that does not entail spending money to support it.........on a continuous basis.

I used to collect stamps when i was a teenager, mostly those that came on envelopes and were just the common variety until 50 years later those common stuff are making their way up the ladder.

If you want to have a hobby that drains every last cent........small bits of paper with glue on the back and a picture on the front are hard to beat for their size and value and the more imperfect they are the more they are sought after.

I personally consider CNC machining as a hobby.........when you have to do it continuously as a money earner it's not a hobby anymore and the machinery to do it must be top notch if you want to stay in business against the competition.

So which comes first......the product or the machine?.....it has to be the product of course......even a 3020 can make money if the product is suitable to it's light build.

Having a product would be something you designed and make that isn't bought, otherwise you're just an odd job man waiting for the world to knock on your door with a big order that you wish you had made/bought a bigger machine for............it can work, but the returns are in the lap of the gods.

A product that springs to mind is the common clothes peg.......everybody wants them, nobody owns the design patent and they are as repetitious as you need for a CNC run

That simple device made from 2 bits of wood and a weird spring device........I'd do away with the steel spring and fit an "O" ring over it......much cheaper than the steel spring.......just thinking outside of the box.
Ian.

[ericks]

I just made a few things for the house on the 6040....she really likes it and she's actually looking forward to the new (better) machine. So i guess it's going to be all good.
With all the money i am spending i hope i can make a bit back sometime, but if i don't its okay cause i am having a lot of fun doing this project. Today i finished the last little machining job on the 6040....packed it away

[handlewanker]

Hi, .....it may be a project but when it's finished it's a money maker........how much and how long.......it just depends on your ingenuity.

My late brother and his wife were craft people and they had a line of craft goods using 6mm plywood.......things like tissue box covers, scissor holders, key ring tags, shopping list boards and tea bag storers etc......all nicely decorated with hand painting.....very arty.

He did the cutting, gluing and finishing and she did the hand painted decorative artwork.

They had a stand at the local craft fairs and used to sell at various meets.........this was in South Africa a couple of years ago now that he's gone.

I tried to get him to think of a CNC approach but he was a dyed in the wool manual wood worker.

Being able to work on aluminium is an advantage as tons of projects are there.

A couple of projects spring to mind..........tea cup table protectors, biscuit and pastry impression molds.........my daughter said if you Google Bullet Journal Stencils in A5 size you would make a packet as they have to be imported from the USA.....not available in OZ.

Personally, I like clocks as the battery driven mechanism is so cheap and everyone uses them.
Ian.

[ericks]

Thanks for the tips/advise Ian. I will look at these for sure

[wizard]

There is also a space between a clear hobby and a supporting business. Ive known many a farm owner for example that considered the farm a hobby and yet wasnt a total drain on income. A CNC might not make eggs for sale but that doesnt mean there isnt a niche out there. With the internet you might be surprised how much income a hobby might bring in. It is a matter of two things, having the right product and being able to reach customers.

[handlewanker]

Well if you are running a hobby and making money at it without declaring it as part of your gross income, the tax man will soon define what a hobby is and what a business is.

BTW.......if you are into a hobby mode you can use Maxh3 for free but as soon as you start making it pay.......Mach 3 wants their licence fee as is their due.

If you aren't registered as a business it's a hobby.....if you make money with your hobby you pay tax without any tax relief and you can't open an account to get stuff at trade prices.
Ian.

[louieatienza]

Well if you are running a hobby and making money at it without declaring it as part of your gross income, the tax man will soon define what a hobby is and what a business is.

BTW.......if you are into a hobby mode you can use Maxh3 for free but as soon as you start making it pay.......Mach 3 wants their licence fee as is their due.

If you aren't registered as a business it's a hobby.....if you make money with your hobby you pay tax without any tax relief and you can't open an account to get stuff at trade prices.
Ian.

You cannot use Mach3 for free with a hobby license. You have to pay for it. You can run 500 lines of code in Demo mode. The commercial license (at the time) cost more.

One can always barter. I've exchanged machine time for CAD/CAM work, wood and other materials, favors, etc.

Here in the US, for freelance work, if the job contracted out to you is over $600, the client would file a 1099-MISC, and this income reported along with your other income on your tax return.

[ericks]

Thanks guys....When i purchased my 6040 i also purchased Mach3 and CamBam both licensed

My wife reckons i should register an ABN, says i am spending way too much money on tools etc...and its going to get worse. Any comments/ideas on this?
The cnc build would be around $12 000 and the shed around $14 000....

[skrubol]

You should probably talk to an accountant about that, that's a pretty big chunk of change.
In the US you could deduct that against any small business income (not against normal salary income though.) I don't think you need to explicitly have a business to do so either, having an LLC or the like is mostly to protect your assets (if something you make breaks and injures someone they can only go after your business assets, not your personal assets.) I'm sure laws vary widely though.

[ericks]

You should probably talk to an accountant about that, that's a pretty big chunk of change.
In the US you could deduct that against any small business income (not against normal salary income though.) I don't think you need to explicitly have a business to do so either, having an LLC or the like is mostly to protect your assets (if something you make breaks and injures someone they can only go after your business assets, not your personal assets.) I'm sure laws vary widely though.

Thank you.....talking to an accountant would be the smart thing to do

[handlewanker]

Going down the accountant path is only when you start making money for real and need to have machinery and materials etc tax deductable.

In that World all you get back is 30% of your outgoings.........and machinery is killed over 4 years.

So, if you make 10 grand a year you'll pay 30% of that to the tax man less of course what you claim on 1/3 of your outgoings

It will cost you money up front for tooling and raw material to make the job and you only get 1/3 of that back a year later.

Even as a small time business start up you need to have at least 10 grand in the bank to see you through the first year and that does not cover the cost of buying the machinery.

There is a huge dividing line between real business and spare time hobby business where you make pocket money for fun and to cover material cost.

When I ran a business in '95 I was able to tax deduct 1/4 of all my household bills against the business.....that's where the accountant earns his money.......AND you must keep all your household outgoings and business costs recepts for at least 7 years after the end of the business period 'ços you can still get audited after that time.

Take very good advice from a tax consultant before you dabble with business or you will get burned for sure.
Ian.

[ericks]

Going down the accountant path is only when you start making money for real and need to have machinery and materials etc tax deductable.

In that World all you get back is 30% of your outgoings.........and machinery is killed over 4 years.

So, if you make 10 grand a year you'll pay 30% of that to the tax man less of course what you claim on 1/3 of your outgoings

It will cost you money up front for tooling and raw material to make the job and you only get 1/3 of that back a year later.

Even as a small time business start up you need to have at least 10 grand in the bank to see you through the first year and that does not cover the cost of buying the machinery.

There is a huge dividing line between real business and spare time hobby business where you make pocket money for fun and to cover material cost.

When I ran a business in '95 I was able to tax deduct 1/4 of all my household bills against the business.....that's where the accountant earns his money.......AND you must keep all your household outgoings and business costs recepts for at least 7 years after the end of the business period 'ços you can still get audited after that time.

Take very good advice from a tax consultant before you dabble with business or you will get burned for sure.
Ian.

Ian i will do that for sure. I am already paying a lot of tax on my wage. Last thing i need is paying more tax!

[handlewanker]

Hi, yes, the tax burden is a heavy one .....some seem to be able to pay no tax even when earning multi millions etc.

You will need to separate the consumables like cutters, drills and raw material costing from the machinery costing as they are tax returned at different levels.

Qu8ite frankly, unless you're intending to go into business completely to earn your crust that way, it probably isn't worth going the tax consultant path.

Make a few things and sell them on EBAY is the easy peasy way......low profile, pocket money etc......if you start getting into making big bikkies that's where it gets a bit tacky.

For a hobby scenario, as long as you can get some return on your outgoings that would be good......but a thousand widgets at a dollar a piece won't pay for your machinery outlay or let you give up your day time job and you still have to deliver them somehow.

If you made some dough on the 6040 you'll probably make the same on the new build.....better machine, better parts.
Ian.

[ericks]

Hi, yes, the tax burden is a heavy one .....some seem to be able to pay no tax even when earning multi millions etc.

You will need to separate the consumables like cutters, drills and raw material costing from the machinery costing as they are tax returned at different levels.

Qu8ite frankly, unless you're intending to go into business completely to earn your crust that way, it probably isn't worth going the tax consultant path.

Make a few things and sell them on EBAY is the easy peasy way......low profile, pocket money etc......if you start getting into making big bikkies that's where it gets a bit tacky.

For a hobby scenario, as long as you can get some return on your outgoings that would be good......but a thousand widgets at a dollar a piece won't pay for your machinery outlay or let you give up your day time job and you still have to deliver them somehow.

If you made some dough on the 6040 you'll probably make the same on the new build.....better machine, better parts.
Ian.

I totally agree with you. It's the wife who suggested reg an ABN.....i rather stay low key on the hobby stuff

[wizard]

Thank you.....talking to an accountant would be the smart thing to do

A lawyer wouldnt hurt either. A good lawyer would be able to explain yiur risks and liabilitues. Generally if you want to sell a product or service you need some sort of corporate protection and some good insurance.

The unfortunate reality is that you can be found liable for all sorts of stupid people tricks. As such you need the legal protection and reasonable insurance coverage.

[handlewanker]

Wow.....that's diving into the deep end of the shark tank........I formed a $50 business in '95 because the firm I worked for and wanted to do sub contract work for would only work with a registered business........when the product run I was making finished so did the business, it was just a means to an end.

The problem with a business is it's like running a race downhill without any brakes.......once you're in it you only get deeper and the complications will get more too.....like feeding a hungry pig without the chance of having any bacon at the end of it.

Yeah.....customer liability and litigation.....the stuff nightmares are made of..........industrial insurance is just one more brick in that wall.......in the end the returns are something like 10 cents in the dollar.......no holidays, long week ends, long service leave,overtime pay or rostered days off, and sickies come out of your pocket too......oh yeah, and no watching TV on that big screen you indulged in.
Ian.

[ericks]

I will not rush into anything for sure. Completing the shed and the cnc build is enough to keep me busy for a long time

[KH0UJ]

Buy this instead





Aluminum 0.5-0.8mm depth cut on a 1/4 shank 2 flute carbide bit (for wood) guaranteed, 4000 FRO, doubled the speed on your current set-up, built in pump for coolant (Metal cutting constant temperature), I really envy this machine in the shop, been saving money to buy my own like this, (sold my 2 motorcycles already) more stronger because the table itself is the one moving (X,Y), ordered mine for just $1100, less maintenance on the ball screws because it`s hidden underneath, cuts aluminum like a piece of cake, steel? no problem (0.4mm) shipping cost a bit higher because it`s a 70Kg. machine. I cant wait to have my own

[ericks]

Buy this instead





Aluminum 0.5-0.8mm depth cut on a 1/4 shank 2 flute carbide bit (for wood) guaranteed, 4000 FRO, doubled the speed on your current set-up, built in pump for coolant (Metal cutting constant temperature), I really envy this machine in the shop, been saving money to buy my own like this, (sold my 2 motorcycles already) more stronger because the table itself is the one moving (X,Y), ordered mine for just $1100, less maintenance on the ball screws because it`s hidden underneath, cuts aluminum like a piece of cake, steel? no problem (0.4mm) shipping cost a bit higher because it`s a 70Kg. machine. I cant wait to have my own

I have to be honest with you, i won't easily buy another "Chinese" machine