Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...


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    Default Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    In the process of building a 10'x5' table. Gee...glad no one here has ever thought of building their own tables, huh?!

    But....

    Looking to build it at about a 60-65 degree angle. Why vertical/angled you ask? Shop space is the reason for the difference in design than normal horizontal/flat. I'm limited to 13x26' worth of shop space, and sharing that space with 3 motorcycles, one lift, several pieces of machinery, few tool boxes and one live in feline.

    I've got an on paper design for a full vertical counter weighted table, a convertible table (vertical to transport/store, then flips down to horizontal to use), and an angled table. I like the convertible idea, but I'm not keen on moving what will amount to nearly 1000lbs of steel around more than necessary. The reason for the angled one, outside of the space issue, is I can park it up against the wall and be done with moving it, saving the shop space for other things. (like the motorcycles and assembling cabinets) I can also park it in the greenhouse if necessary, bringing it back in when I need it or just out into the driveway on a nice day and/or want to piss off the neighbors with the noise. 8" industrial casters will handle the weight easily, and I've got 8 of the in the pile waiting.

    Figuring that the Y axis' mass and an angle will require either an abundance of motor (NEMA 34-1600oz) to push it around, or slower speeds than most folks want to accomplish, but I'm hopeful I'm thinking with the right head on this one. No springs, no counter weights, no anti-gravity needed. Z shouldn't need anything more than a 425oz NEMA 23 to accomplish it's job in that odd angle it will work at, and the X movement might get away with a single 425 NEMA 23, but I'm building the X gear for the option of another NEMA34-1600oz if needed. Worst case, I've also got some plans drawn up for an internal spring/counter weight system INSIDE the gantry that should prevent the need for bigger than NEMA 34 motors and turtle like operating speeds.

    Control cabinet is complete once I reinstall the board and 60V power supply I smoked this past weekend. Had it working until I forgot I put in a 110V sensor and forgot to label the connector. Just a matter of picking up the steel (later this week) and starting the welding.

    Z is finished except for a pulley and belt, and mounting the last plate and bearings for the X travel. 20mm round rails are in sizes 3000mm and 1500mm, with 4 bearings for each rail on every axis except the Z (which only runs 2 per side). Both vertical and horizontally mounted rails on the X 'should' take care of any free play. Should...little word with big meaning if it doesn't. Vice mounted currently, there is no measurable (.0001) movement with side to side slide, but that might change once mounted to the gantry.

    I'm a guy that does things a little different than anyone else, and usually succeeds in doing and getting what I want when the smoke clears. Over the summer, as I build this table, I'm hoping to continue that streak of non-traditional 'stuff'. So, grab your popcorn, pull up a chair and make sure there's more beer in the fridge. I have a feeling this is going to get interesting.

    (Photo's: most of the 12" travel Z sporting the 3hp spindle, awaiting a pulley and belt. 1/2 of the X axis (8x14x.5") awaiting a piece of 6x14x.5" plate so I can mount the other 4 bearings)
    Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...-imgp1666-jpgVertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...-imgp1665-jpg

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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    A 1600oz motor is definitely NOT the answer. Those aren't good for much more than a boat anchor.
    How are you moving the Y axis? You really only need to lift the entire Z axis assembly, right? What is it, 50 lbs?

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    A 1600oz motor is definitely NOT the answer. Those aren't good for much more than a boat anchor.
    How are you moving the Y axis? You really only need to lift the entire Z axis assembly, right? What is it, 50 lbs?
    How as in motor or type of transmission rack gears? There are 3ea 72" 16pitch racks in the shop to be welded/mounted to the frame.

    I'd read something about the 1600oz 34's...how true is that? 60V @4.2A not going to hold/move the gantry? I was used to the 34's on my Tormach pushing things through walls...they won't hold 'it' for me on this? Guessing the weight will be about 50#, but haven't put it on the scales just yet.
    Would another 425oz NEMA 23 do the trick?



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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    1600oz motors have high inductance, and won't spin very fast.
    Something in the 600-900oz range is probably a much better choice.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    1600oz motors have high inductance, and won't spin very fast.
    Something in the 600-900oz range is probably a much better choice.
    Gotcha. Will see how this one works and make a decision off that.
    Thanks for the info.



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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    Everything is running again!!! Board is in, working fine. No more smoke...yet.

    Got the X and Z carriage done. 8 bearings on the X, 4 vertical and 4 horizontal. Hopefully....hopefully....the combination will take care of any slop reported to be associated with all round shaft installations. We'll see. I need to move up from a 2x6 gantry to a 3x6 or bigger now that the carriage is done. I'd be dead on with a 2.5x6...but. Building from the Z out has it's disadvantages. But, I'll end up with the 48" X travel and over 8" Z, so I'm doing something right so far.

    Photo's pending...I need to move a tractor from WV to PA, so they'll be posted when I get back.

    Last edited by millerized; 04-28-2017 at 07:35 AM.


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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    I think the main thing is not having that z carriage slide down your inclined gantry when you power off, which it probably will.

    The mill retrofit crowd uses 1600in-oz steppers and larger regularly, but they have no need of rapiding at the speeds we do. I have a NEMA34 Parker stepper rated at 1000in-oz stall and is capable of over 300in-oz at 3000rpm. However the matching drive outputs 177VDC. You probably could get by with a 1600in-oz stepper but you'll probably need to use a high lead (20mm) or more to take advantage of the low speed ttorque, as well as a monster drive/PSU.



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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by millerized View Post
    Everything is running again!!! Board is in, working fine. No more smoke...yet.

    Got the X and Z carriage done. 8 bearings on the X, 4 vertical and 4 horizontal. Hopefully....hopefully....the combination will take care of any slop reported to be associated with all round shaft installations. We'll see. I need to move up from a 2x6 gantry to a 3x6 or bigger now that the carriage is done. I'd be dead on with a 2.5x6...but. Building from the Z out has it's disadvantages. But, I'll end up with the 48" X travel and over 8" Z, so I'm doing something right so far.
    The slop in round bearings often adjustable depending upon the specific bearing block used. In any event looseness in the mechanics is only an issue if the goal is to do precision work. The vertical arrangement of the machine might be. bigger issue in that respect. I really depends upon what you will be making on the machine.
    Photo's pending...I need to move a tractor from WV to PA, so they'll be posted when I get back.
    Must have photos of the tractor too!



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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    The slop in round bearings often adjustable depending upon the specific bearing block used. In any event looseness in the mechanics is only an issue if the goal is to do precision work. The vertical arrangement of the machine might be. bigger issue in that respect. I really depends upon what you will be making on the machine.


    Must have photos of the tractor too!
    Kubota BX22...nothing fancy. Brought it down last fall to replace the 3pt piston rings. Just finally got around to taking it back up.



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    Default Re: Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

    X and Z are getting there. 1500mm rails slide nicely along the 8 bearings on the carriage. I can 'ride' it with my feet on it, and it feels pretty smooth with another 165# on it. It'll be much nicer once the rails get mounted on a 6"x3" gantry. Of course, I have to make that first.
    One piece at a time. I'm not in a hurry, and if I'm lucky steel will get picked up this week or early next...or after that.
    With all the electronics working, I'm left with welding and figuring out gearing that fits the 20 degree rack.

    Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...-imgp1677-jpgVertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...-imgp1680-jpg



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Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...

Vertical/Semi-vertical tables...anyone? My thoughts...