New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome


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    Default New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Hey guys,

    So over the last week or so I've been designing myself a replacement table top router for my current x6-2200L (a 6040 style machine but has 20mm HG type linear rails), pictured here, i'll be transferring the electronics across since I've already upgraded those (pokeys57cnc controller and leadshine closed loop easy servo motors and drives).

    Current machine


    Design Brief for new machine:

    - Improve upon the work area size whilst the footprint has to stay within similar limits to the current machine
    - Increase rigidity compared to previous machine. Current one is fairly good but room for improvement, especially on the Y-axis.
    - Spindle mount must allow tramming
    - Dual motor Y-axis due to increased weight of beefed up gantry and to allow automatic squaring.
    - Machine must be general purpose, I need to cut everything from aluminium to plastics and carbon fibre/FR4)
    - Good shielding of motion components from dust/chips without limiting travel.


    So this is an overview of the new design, individual parts I'll show in more detail further down. The red strips above the rails is just 1mm silicone strip to help act as a dust shield.










    Y-Axis:

    - Primarily constructed from 45x90mm heavy profile, 45x45 profile, 20mm precision ground solid plate for tool plate, and 20mm plate for corner pieces.
    - Motion components: HGR20 x 4, HGH20CA x 8, FK12 x 2, FF12 x 2, MBA10-C x 2, TBI 1605 Ground C5 ball screw and nut x 2
    - Total span 1000mm, Travel 750mm.
    - Permanent water tray to contain chips/coolant and also for cutting CF fully submerged. Constructed from 12mm Acetyl, 5mm Acrylic and finished with 10mm Aluminium tool plate. G1/4 drain point at front.










    X-Axis:

    - Primarily constructed from 40x160 Heavy ITM profile, 20mm precision ground solid plate for gantry arms.
    - Motion components: HGR20 x 2, HGH20CA x 2, FK12 x 1, FF12 x 1, MBA10-C x 1, TBI 1605 Ground C5 Ball Screw and nut x 1
    - Total Span 550mm, Travel 395mm.








    Z-Axis:

    - Primarily constructed from 20mm and 15mm precision ground plate. 80mm Spindle mount from CNC router parts.
    - Motion components: HGR25 x 2, HGH25CA x 2, FK12 x 1, MBA10-C x 1, TBI 1604 Ground C5 Ball Screw and nut x 1
    - Tram adjustable +/- 1 degree
    - Total Span 250mm, Travel 165mm









    So, I'm contemplating building this in the next couple of months - would like to see if you guys point out any easy improvements or additions. I am aware of course that this is not the most low cost machine I'll ever have built, but I'm after something with high precision and rigidity while having a decent work area. Still need to design a few little bits like cable chain mounts and ref switch mounts etc.

    Similar Threads:


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Double the gantry side thickness, and get rid of the double rails on the sides. They add almost nothing, except for cost.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Hi Ger,

    Thanks for the input - I thought the double rail would help prevent gantry rocking, given that the arms are fairly long the lever arm trying to rock the carriages is fairly significant with lateral cutting loads. By adding the second rail this should mean that any tiny radial play in the rail won't be able to cause any gantry movement.... the second bonus I was thinking is that it's another two (left and right) 20mm steel rail to add to the stiffness of the Y-span. Is there truly nothing to be gained from it?

    I'm working on fairly restrictive dimensions as I need to fit it in an enclosure on the CNC table I built. I'm not sure I can double the arm thickness without losing work area which is one of my main motives for the upgrade. In the current design it is 20mm, I have had a play and I can increase to 25mm while still fitting within the dimensions as long as I inset the motor further, but that's the maximum before I start running into issues. Do you think 25mm will be sufficient (current machine is 15mm) or should I consider losing work area to add thickness here?

    Thanks for the reply.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    I thought the double rail would help prevent gantry rocking, given that the arms are fairly long the lever arm trying to rock the carriages is fairly significant with lateral cutting loads.
    The only way that the sides can rotate the bearings, is if the joint between the sides and gantry beam has moved or opened, or if the sides are bending. You're cutting forces are not going to be all that high on such a small machine, with a spindle like that.

    I think that your weak point is the Z axis. I'd prefer 4 smaller bearings vs the 2 larger ones, spreading them out a bit more. And

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Hmm ok thanks.

    Regarding the z-axis, I upgraded from 20mm to 25mm rail due to only having 2 carriages in an attempt to keep decent travel without too large a unit. I could downgrade to 20mm and see if I can do something that keeps the motor and ball screw roughly where there are while adding a second carriage to each rail.

    Would 4 x 20mm carriage be a significant improvement over 2 x 25mm on that axis in your opinion?

    I think you cut off your reply by the way, it finishes in "And"



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    I've had a play and I think I can redesign the X-axis to use 4x HGH20CA carriages with minimal increase in overall size and still maintaining the 160mm travel... I'll go to work on that.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Your system of hiding the motion parts behind brushes / covers is interesting. However it will probably reduce rigidity as you are reducing contact area.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Maybe a little, but it's all milled from solid plate and the pieces that attach to the "risers" are 20mm thick and have a short span. I don't expect it to cause too many issues but we shall see!

    Re-design of the Z-axis based on Ger's feedback... it now has 4x HGH20CA carriages and 2x HGR20R rails. Overall length has grown by 6 mm but travel is maintained at 165mm. I've also changed over to the RoverCNC spindle mount as it looks significantly more beefy.












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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Looks good. Everything been mentioned so far, but
    Youd be fine with just 3 frame supports, not 4
    What are the red end caps for?

    Luthier/Woodworker/Machinist in NS, Canada.


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Agree that spindle mount looks better



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by pippin88 View Post
    Agree that spindle mount looks better
    +1... Much Better

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    I'd remove the dual rails from the side, would turn the rails 90 degrees so that the gantry is resting on the rails and would spend more time on the Z. Basically, you need to add a plate which is lowered with the spindle so that the spindle motor is attached to the plate at it's lowest part, not at the top as you have designed. I would not care about the brushes on the Z, you will spend too much time on that part without much benefit. Spend the time on figuring out a good dust extraction system, or at least a dust shoe which you can easily remove when needed. A far too compact Z design will punish you in the end. I would also make the machine taller to allow more separation between the X rails. That would increase the rigidity a lot.

    Edit:
    Another thing... why not making those end-plates from one piece on each end of the Y axis? What is the benefit of using two plates on each end, instead of just one?

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Fairly easy to make a longer Spindle mounting plate if required, that won't require any change to the axis design itself. I'll have a think about that cheers.

    The reason for the current arrangement of the y-axis kit is that it allows the weight of the gantry to be held by 90mm width of the extrusion (plus the 20mm tool plate), if I go horizontal then it would have to either be just the 45mm of extrusion or if I underslung it then 45mm + the 20mm tool plate.

    I already have a dust shoe, but it's not always easy to use with coolant so I'm looking to protect the motion components where possible (I'm going to be very protective of those lovely ground c5 ball screws lol).

    It's quite hard to find extrusions wider than the 160mm I've used there from any places in the UK that can offer decent precision on the cuts. The largest extrusion I have been able to find is 200mm but not from the places I would like to buy from.... possible I could ask if they can get it in stock, but do you think there is much to be gained by an extra 40mm? Unfortunately the gantry span is just a bit longer than my current machine can deal with so I'm stuck with buying a part for that.

    Same reason for the end plates - my current machine can't quite handle that length of part. My plan would be to build this machine, then when it's up and running it will have more than sufficient work area to manufacture one-piece end plates.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by jahnj0584 View Post
    Looks good. Everything been mentioned so far, but
    Youd be fine with just 3 frame supports, not 4
    What are the red end caps for?
    The 4th frame support is mostly for mounting the motor bracket/ball screw bearing mount... or do you mean I could lose the middle one?

    The end caps are just covering ports for easy access to the grease nipples.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
    Current machine:



    A little OT side note... hope it's OK.

    I see you are using the same vise as I have. Have you seen my modifications?



    It is much better now. The center grip is fine, but some times I find it better to have a fixed side as reference.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    A little OT side note... hope it's OK.

    I see you are using the same vise as I have. Have you seen my modifications?



    It is much better now. The center grip is fine, but some times I find it better to have a fixed side as reference.
    Actually I was pretty disappointed with the vise. When the end pieces are lined up with the Y axis of the machine (using dowel pins to butt up against) it is way too far out in X to be of any use. I have to spend quite some time trying to align it so it will actually hold a work piece square. It also doesn't line up great when clamping parts in the top of the jaw as one side is higher than the other (and rides up a little when clamping force is applied). Overall I think it's a fairly crap bit of kit.

    I like your idea of milling a lip to give a reference to the fixed side though, I think I will give that a go... cheers for sharing!

    I have also designed a new low profile vise which I'm just going to make myself... just ordered the 12mm rails and linear bearings and when they arrive i'm going to get cracking on it.

    My DIY vise:







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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
    Actually I was pretty disappointed with the vise. When the end pieces are lined up with the Y axis of the machine (using dowel pins to butt up against) it is way too far out in X to be of any use. I have to spend quite some time trying to align it so it will actually hold a work piece square. It also doesn't line up great when clamping parts in the top of the jaw as one side is higher than the other (and rides up a little when clamping force is applied). Overall I think it's a fairly crap bit of kit.
    I don't know, I would not call it crap, but it is definitely not suitable for anything heavy. Best for engraving aluminum and smaller plastic bits.Aligning is not easy, I spent some time on that part as well. Milling new lips definitely was an improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
    I like your idea of milling a lip to give a reference to the fixed side though, I think I will give that a go... cheers for sharing!
    Give it a go. I am sure you will not be disappointed. The disadvantage is that you need to twist the screw in the wrong direction for tightening but otherwise it is definitely better now.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeeflyboy View Post
    I have also designed a new low profile vise which I'm just going to make myself... just ordered the 12mm rails and linear bearings and when they arrive i'm going to get cracking on it.

    My DIY vise:



    Very interesting design. Please share the progress once you start it. I kike the top design better. Looks more rigid also.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    I don't know, I would not call it crap, but it is definitely not suitable for anything heavy. Best for engraving aluminum and smaller plastic bits.Aligning is not easy, I spent some time on that part as well. Milling new lips definitely was an improvement.
    Perhaps I got the friday afternoon special, but i was seriously disappointed for something marketed as a "precision vise" from a german company. Not sure where the precision is on mine - The thing didn't even sit flat as it was sent to me - I had to loosen the set screws in one end and then re-tighten to allow it to settle flat (on a precision ground surface, so I know it was the vice that wasn't flat)... combine that with it's inability to hold something accurately perpendicular to the axis and one block being higher than the other by around 0.5mm, and needless to say I wasn't overly impressed.

    I'm perfectly willing however to accept that perhaps my experience was not the norm though... perhaps I just got a lemon.

    Give it a go. I am sure you will not be disappointed. The disadvantage is that you need to twist the screw in the wrong direction for tightening but otherwise it is definitely better now.
    Will do, cheers.


    Very interesting design. Please share the progress once you start it. I kike the top design better. Looks more rigid also.

    Actually top and bottom are the same vise, bottom view is just a close up and cut-away view of the inner workings.

    It will use 6mm dowel pins combined with pre-drilled positions on the tool plate to make for easy alignment, travel of the jaw is about 100mm currently and of course depending on how many setting holes you drill in the tool plate it should be able to clamp work of pretty much any size and hopefully with very good rigidity. I'll post in here when I've actually started work on it if you are interested - its something I want to get made before I start work on machining bits for the new CNC.



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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Right, re-designed the Z-axis based on feedback from here and another forum.

    Reversed the arrangement so that the carriages are fixed... managed to actually save 9mm in depth and 11mm in height while keeping travel the same, with the bonus that the setup should be more rigid now. Only downside is slightly less good component shielding, but I've added wipers to help keep the rails clean (plus with this design, the exposed part never travels back far enough to actually enter the carriage).

    This is just a quick design mock up before getting stuck into finer details, would appreciate any thoughts on this new direction

    Z-Axis carriage - using 20mm plate as the back piece, 16mm plate to space out the carriages (plus 16mm top and bottom):




    Central travel position with Rails/Face plate (20mm) and tramming plate (15mm):




    Bottom travel:




    Top Travel:




    View of rails at bottom position:





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    Default Re: New DIY build - design suggestions/ideas welcome

    Looks great. Take dust extraction into consideration already at this stage. I think that is important as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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