Spindle vs router?

[Jeff0000]

I'm planning my MPCNC build, and I seem to be stuck on if I should get a router or a spindle.
I'd like to be able to cut 3/4 inch plywood in 2 passes at 65 ipm+
The spindles seem a bit more expensive, because I would be looking at 800w instead of 400w (I think?) but I feel like having the extra bearings in it would help. But it's heavier by a good amount.
I wish they made a 600w quiet cut, 300w just seems too small.
I don't know much about collets, but it seems like the spindles are better for that too.

But a router is CHEAP, and lighter.
I do plan a fairly large span for a MPCNC.

Also trying to figure out if stainless round tube is stiffer than steel for the weight? Trying to keep the 1" round tube rigid, but light. It's another tough balance.

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[the_hamturdler]

A router is your best bang for your buck and you need the lightest tool you can get. The small makita, I cant remember the model, is your best bet. If you plan on building a more rigid machine in the future, go with the spindle.

I have to point out that I don't think your MPCNC will meet the cut capability that you are looking for. Those are very aggressive cuts for a flimsy machine like the MPCNC. It will cut plywood and is a good budget machine, but those feeds are too optimistic for the machines capability.

[Jeff0000]

A router is your best bang for your buck and you need the lightest tool you can get. The small makita, I cant remember the model, is your best bet. If you plan on building a more rigid machine in the future, go with the spindle.

I have to point out that I don't think your MPCNC will meet the cut capability that you are looking for. Those are very aggressive cuts for a flimsy machine like the MPCNC. It will cut plywood and is a good budget machine, but those feeds are too optimistic for the machines capability.

Is there a better design I could follow? Without costing a huge amount? I could probably do 1000 bucks total for the project. I do have the ability to work with steel.
My biggest problem seems to be the use of belts, as soon as I ditch the belts the price skyrockets. And once I go for beefier steel construction my stepper costs and drivers cost skyrocket.
Especially since I am aiming to be able to cut a full sheet of plywood.

Thanks

[danaman]

2.2kw chinese spindle router

[SteveWill]

You can do the router for what you are talking about.
Forget about using unsupported 1in tube. I would say 12 inches is the max on UNsupported tube. My first build I used 1inch SS tube that I filled with epoxy, for the Z and Y axes it was not rigid enough in either case. Here is link of my first build.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...-software.html

Note I am on my 3 rebuild. The X axes is still the same and I am now using the same on the Y axes, I did away with all tubes.

Here is a link to a machine that is about twice the price you are looking at, look at what they have done to make the machine rigid, watch the video that is on that page.

https://www.finelineautomation.com/p...ter?taxon_id=2

[ger21]

The reality is that you can't even get a decent 2x2 machine for $1,000 let alone a 4x8 machine.

[Jeff0000]

A router is your best bang for your buck and you need the lightest tool you can get. The small makita, I cant remember the model, is your best bet. If you plan on building a more rigid machine in the future, go with the spindle.

I have to point out that I don't think your MPCNC will meet the cut capability that you are looking for. Those are very aggressive cuts for a flimsy machine like the MPCNC. It will cut plywood and is a good budget machine, but those feeds are too optimistic for the machines capability.

You think I would have to slow it down quite a bit? In that case would a smaller spindle like the 300w quiet cut be my best bet?

2.2kw chinese spindle router

I would LOVE to do that, but would need a different machine for sure, lol. Is that one of those little 3040 type machines?

You can do the router for what you are talking about.
Forget about using unsupported 1in tube. I would say 12 inches is the max on UNsupported tube. My first build I used 1inch SS tube that I filled with epoxy, for the Z and Y axes it was not rigid enough in either case. Here is link of my first build.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn...-software.html

Note I am on my 3 rebuild. The X axes is still the same and I am now using the same on the Y axes, I did away with all tubes.

Here is a link to a machine that is about twice the price you are looking at, look at what they have done to make the machine rigid, watch the video that is on that page.

https://www.finelineautomation.com/p...ter?taxon_id=2

For the outside tubes I was going to use precision ground solid iron, and support it as often as needed, so the outside rails you could park a car on, the table itself will be made from 2x1 steel tube.
If the steppers can handle the weight I could use 1/4 wall stainless or even 5/16, should be pretty sturdy? Was actually wondering if I could add some flat bar to the bottom maybe to add a little rigidity.

The one in the link seems ok, but expensive, and why aluminium? I know it's easier to work with, but I always thought that mass helped too.

In your first link it's a plywood build, did you mean to link something else?

The reality is that you can't even get a decent 2x2 machine for $1,000 let alone a 4x8 machine.

The 2x3 mpcnc has adequate results using emt. I am not looking to cut steel here.

[SteveWill]

Yes I meant to post the plywood build, it has a lot of stuff I used. With software, electronics and all the hardware, I was close to your $1000 point. It is less then 1/4 the size you need. Getting it rigid was my biggest problem. Well actually my biggest problem was how little I knew, there is a lot to learn and i am still learning,but it has been very rewording.

[Jeff0000]

Yes I meant to post the plywood build, it has a lot of stuff I used. With software, electronics and all the hardware, I was close to your $1000 point. It is less then 1/4 the size you need. Getting it rigid was my biggest problem. Well actually my biggest problem was how little I knew, there is a lot to learn and i am still learning,but it has been very rewording.

Ah yes. I missed one post, makes sense reading it again.

I've been thinking. I could make it all steel rectangular tube with a similar bearing riding on it design, but my issue then becomes that I think it's too heavy to use belts, and the steppers need to be larger which I guess isn't that big a deal.
But using all thread on my 3d printer I just don't think it would last enough or be fast enough. But it is more rigid then belts and cheaper that ballscrew. I mean 8' ball screw would be crazy.

[SteveWill]

I have seen a lot of post that are again using all thread but I have found the 1/2 inch with 13 thread has worked well for me. I think at 8 feet, one would use rack and pinion. I would try all thread for a 4 foot span. I don,t think I would for 8 feet. With the parts in that post, I am getting 170 ipm, and that is where it lose steps unloaded. So I have no problem running my work at 70 ipm, I only take .15 inch deep cuts in wood. I am now using a Dewalt 1.25 HP Compact Router. I think all steel would be the way to go, I just do not have the tools and knowledge for steel, aluminium I can work with my wood working tools

[ger21]

The 2x3 mpcnc has adequate results using emt. I am not looking to cut steel here.

Adequate means different things to different people.
Why not use acme screws, if your considering allthread? 1/2-10 is very inexpensive, and far superior to 1/2" allthread. Multistart is a huge improvement again, but the price starts to go up a bit.

[wizard]

You think I would have to slow it down quite a bit? In that case would a smaller spindle like the 300w quiet cut be my best bet?

In the long run you don't want an under power spindle. I'd suggest at least 1 HP continuous duty. Beyond that larger spindles, or even routers for that matter accept larger colleges making your machine more flexible.

I would LOVE to do that, but would need a different machine for sure, lol. Is that one of those little 3040 type machines?

Then consider a more robust build.

For the outside tubes I was going to use precision ground solid iron, and support it as often as needed, so the outside rails you could park a car on, the table itself will be made from 2x1 steel tube.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here but you seem to trivialize the issues with the idea that you can park a car on the frame. Like it or not a car would deflect the frame.

If the steppers can handle the weight I could use 1/4 wall stainless or even 5/16, should be pretty sturdy? Was actually wondering if I could add some flat bar to the bottom maybe to add a little rigidity.

We would need more info describing what your intentions are. The problem as ai see it is that the frame of a machine has to work together to provide stiff support for you linear rails and the work piece.

The one in the link seems ok, but expensive, and why aluminium? I know it's easier to work with, but I always thought that mass helped too.

Mass can help to some degree. The problem with steel is having the resources to work with it to build the components you need. Some people look to aluminum extrusions as the easy out. Personally I don't see it that way, Steel is relatively cheap compared to Aluminum extrusions and you can consider non welded frames if welding is out of the question.

In your first link it's a plywood build, did you mean to link something else?




The 2x3 mpcnc has adequate results using emt. I am not looking to cut steel here.

"Adequate" means a lot of things to different people in the end your goals are a factor as are your expectations. It is really hard to suggest which way to go if we don't have some idea as to what you are looking to do and and what your expectations are. For example if your goal is precision wood working and high quality results I really can't see an EMT machine doing the job. I often use the idea of building a boat as compared to cabinet making. What is adequate for a wood framed boat is certainly different than what a cabinet maker would expect and a musical instrument maker might have even higher expectations.

[Jeff0000]

I have seen a lot of post that are again using all thread but I have found the 1/2 inch with 13 thread has worked well for me. I think at 8 feet, one would use rack and pinion. I would try all thread for a 4 foot span. I don,t think I would for 8 feet. With the parts in that post, I am getting 170 ipm, and that is where it lose steps unloaded. So I have no problem running my work at 70 ipm, I only take .15 inch deep cuts in wood. I am now using a Dewalt 1.25 HP Compact Router. I think all steel would be the way to go, I just do not have the tools and knowledge for steel, aluminium I can work with my wood working tools

I always worried about backlash with the rack and pinion. But looking deeper it seems like there is ways to work around that.
It's pretty expensive, but not to bad I guess.

This would allow me to build a pretty rigid machine, probably do 2.2kw spindle, and should be able to cut steel, slowly.

The build would take me a while to get perfect with the steel working tools I have. Lol. Hmm.