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    Default CNC Electronics

    I am building a CNC Mill


    and I need some help with electronics. I found a supplier and I was wondering if someone with more experience could give me advice on if these items would be any good.

    I am on a budget and the quote I got for three - 3 Nm steppers, three - drivers, one - power supply, and one - breakout board which came to $173.20 US without the shipping. It is direct from the factory.

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    CNC Electronics-new-blue-breakout-board-hg06-1-pdf  


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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    May get more response with a link to product rather than files people need to open which could be a security risk, however they will do a job it depends on what your expectations of the machine are and what you expect to cut and at what speeds. I tend to buy from aliexpress and as I cannot see a power supply in your package there are alternatives like this one with power supply included that represent better value From UK/free shipping 3 axis CNC controller kit 3 NEMA23 270 oz in stepper motor& motor driver /256 microstep and 4.5A current-in Motor Driver from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group look around not sure on your location but lots of EU and USA warehouses mean quicker delivery and no duty.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Both those solutions make me queazy. May work fine, or it may be a lesson in getting cheap import solutions to work. (though not the same product, this should be a 'red flag': repair TB6560)There is a difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap". My daddy used to say "the lowest price is not always the best value". Seems like you are investing a lot of time designing the system. Don't 'cheap out' on the electronics if you can avoid it. Consider a solution without all the different parts and breakout boards & such. One board, 3 or 4 steppers. I use HobbyCNC boards in my DIY build, working great for years. You do need to provide your own Power Supply.

    Last edited by WoodWorkerB; 04-17-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Great but if on a budget the cheap imports work fine for what they are, as for the TB6560 I used a dozen of them for one company they cut 1/2" to 2" lexan day and night for machine guards and security uses with the machines and not one failure during builds or during last 12 months, the reason they have a reputation for magically generating smoke is that they don't have circuit protection to stop people wiring them incorrectly and taking out the driver chip.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Go for microstepping mosfet drivers. Tb drivers are not capable of anything over 2a repeatable current. 75% of tb drivers have counterfeit chips and the chance that you simply won't be happy is more than likely.

    You can get wantai mosfets which are rebranded cheaper jingsun motor company drivers which are good and barely more than tb drivers. Slightly better would be the jingsun cw5045 which has basic dsp. They also do slightly more expensive dsp drivers which don't suffer warm up fluctuations.

    As for motion control, a uc100 with uccnc is a quality cheap option. Just need a bog standard pp opto isolated Bob, non motion control type.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    I would consider better drives, and if you're using 5mm lead ballscrews (if I remember correctly) then those 3N-m steppers may be a bit too much. And those cheap drives won't run them properly anyway because their maximum voltage is likely far less than those steppers can handle - meaning, you're wasting money on those larger steppers that won't achieve their advertised performance rating. You can see by their own chart - at 450 rpm, you'll have about 42oz-in torque at about 88ipm. And that's at half step. If you used something reasonable like 1/4 or 1/8 step the torque will be even lower.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Ok, I see. I kind of figured these were pretty cheap. So does anyone have any recommendations for 3 Nm steppers with drivers, power supply, and breakout board? Preferably under $350 CAD with shipping. I live in Ontario, Canada. I intend to cut aluminum with them and yes I do have 5 mm ball screws.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Those cheap two in one bobs and motion control are awful. Complete waste of money and time. Wantai drivers are $30 a pop, so $120, add a uc100 @ $90, bob $40, Motors $40 and 48v psu $50. So within budget

    Buying bits this way you can get a higher voltage system with better components. buying a substandard kit off eBay you will never be happy with it.

    For instance that second kit has a bob with no motion control, so you still need a motion controller unless an argricultural machine with poor motion is what you looking for. Both those kits the drivers are cheap drv type, also not very good.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    The 380in-oz stepper has been the choice of many a build here on the forum because it's ratings fall into the high range of the capabilities of most popular better drives today. The typical ones run at 48V at 3.5A or less, and have pretty decent torque curves . They'll probably have higher torque at higher speed compared to the 425in-oz using the same drive and PSU. The most popular combination would be paired with a GeckoDrive G540, or a Leadshine MX3660. The Leadshine is actually capable of handling 60V, so it would be a better though not ideal match to the 425in-oz steppers.

    I will say that the cheaper steppers may not have the best "linearity" because of their manufacture and components. If you're going to invest in profile rails, it doesn't make sense to cheap out on electronics. I'd take round rails and better electronics over profile rails and bunk electronics - all the rigidity in the world means nothing if your system is unreliable.

    You could potentially make your own power supply to save some bucks, as well as try to get as much metal as possible from salvage.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Alright. I need to keep the cost below $1500. I had all the steel parts donated so all I need to buy is the linear control system (which I have already purchased for $530.00 CAD (Profile rails & C7 ball screws)) and the spindle motor

    CNC Spindle Kit 1.5KW 110V Water Cooling Spindle Motor + 1.5kw 110V Spindle Interver + 80mm Clamp + Water Pump + 5M Pipe-in Machine Tool Spindle from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    for $487.84 CAD.

    This leaves me with ~$480.00 (but I'd prefer a bit lower as I may have to pay duty and taxes on all the other parts).

    So can anyone recommend a kit that worked for them with 380 Oz-in to 425 Oz-in steppers? I live in Canada so 110V is the input current I need for power supplies.

    I want to start this project soon and I'm still new to the electronics aspect. I don't want to make a simple mistake with getting crappy electronics so i'd really appreciate some specific suggestions.

    Here are a few I found on more reputable sites geared towards CNC builds (i know some are above my budget but I may be able to make exceptions):

    3 Axis 3Nm(425oz.in) Nema 23 Stepper Motor & M542T Driverr Kit For CNC Router [3-M542T-23HS45] - US$
    3 Axis 3.1Nm(439 oz.in) Nema 24 Stepper Motor & M542T Driverr Kit For CNC Router|3-M542T-24HS34|3 Axis CNC Kits
    PROBOTIXâ„¢ :: 3-Axis Monster Stepper Motor Driver Kit
    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...4030-duplicate

    Last edited by BrandonBe; 04-17-2016 at 02:59 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonBe View Post
    Alright. I need to keep the cost below $1500. I had all the steel parts donated so all I need to buy is the linear control system (which I have already purchased for $530.00 CAD (Profile rails & C7 ball screws)) and the spindle motor

    CNC Spindle Kit 1.5KW 110V Water Cooling Spindle Motor + 1.5kw 110V Spindle Interver + 80mm Clamp + Water Pump + 5M Pipe-in Machine Tool Spindle from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    for $487.84 CAD.

    This leaves me with ~$480.00 (but I'd prefer a bit lower as I may have to pay duty and taxes on all the other parts).

    So can anyone recommend a kit that worked for them with 380 Oz-in to 425 Oz-in steppers? I live in Canada so 110V is the input current I need for power supplies.

    I want to start this project soon and I'm still new to the electronics aspect. I don't want to make a simple mistake with getting crappy electronics so i'd really appreciate some specific suggestions.

    Here are a few I found on more reputable sites geared towards CNC builds (i know some are above my budget but I may be able to make exceptions):

    3 Axis 3Nm(425oz.in) Nema 23 Stepper Motor & M542T Driverr Kit For CNC Router [3-M542T-23HS45] - US$
    3 Axis 3.1Nm(439 oz.in) Nema 24 Stepper Motor & M542T Driverr Kit For CNC Router|3-M542T-24HS34|3 Axis CNC Kits
    PROBOTIXâ„¢ :: 3-Axis Monster Stepper Motor Driver Kit
    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...4030-duplicate
    those kits are all overpriced, they are the dm542 drivers, same the eBay kits. All except your last link which looks like a rebranded wantai driver/ jingsu driver. All come from the same place only you seem to be paying more with that kit for the same product. Infact the dm542a replaced the m542.

    this kit is virtually the same at half the price.

    http://m.ebay.com/itm/USA-Free-Wantai-3Axis-Nema23-CNC-57BYGH115-003B-3A-425oz-Dual-Shaft-Driver-542-/321348516358?nav=SEARCH

    As with the kits you linked to, all of these will also need a motion controller such as the uc100.

    If it was a 48v system you wanted as the same as the automation technologies kit with same driver spec, then look at the cw5045. They are $35 ea. the bob in that kit is a very cheap one, a few dollars. And psu motors etc all in you can buy individually from eBay for cheaper than that kit. Infact there are kits of these without psu for $199 on eBay.

    The probiotix kits are again well overpriced. Here's exactly same kit on eBay:

    http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=272083306072&category=71394&pm=1&ds=0&t=1460955422809

    The dm/m and wantai drivers are basically the same, what's not so apparent in pricing and description is that the cw5045 is actually not the same and is Infact a better driver. I don't think that's reflected in the price and I can only put this down to being sold directly from jingsu instead of being rebranded jingsu drivers like the others. The main difference is they have slightly higher output current at 5a and if you open one up they have twice as many components inside compared to dm/m/wantai

    Last edited by Jon.N.CNC; 04-18-2016 at 01:26 AM.


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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon.N.CNC View Post
    those kits are all overpriced, they are the dm542 drivers, same the eBay kits. All except your last link which looks like a rebranded wantai driver/ jingsu driver. All come from the same place only you seem to be paying more with that kit for the same product. Infact the dm542a replaced the m542.

    this kit is virtually the same at half the price.

    USA Free Wantai 3Axis Nema23 CNC 57BYGH115 003B 3A 425oz Dual Shaft Driver 542 | eBay

    As with the kits you linked to, all of these will also need a motion controller such as the uc100.

    If it was a 48v system you wanted as the same as the automation technologies kit with same driver spec, then look at the cw5045. They are $35 ea. the bob in that kit is a very cheap one, a few dollars. And psu motors etc all in you can buy individually from eBay for cheaper than that kit. Infact there are kits of these without psu for $199 on eBay.

    The probiotix kits are again well overpriced. Here's exactly same kit on eBay:

    http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...=1460955422809

    The dm/m and wantai drivers are basically the same, what's not so apparent in pricing and description is that the cw5045 is actually not the same and is Infact a better driver. I don't think that's reflected in the price and I can only put this down to being sold directly from jingsu instead of being rebranded jingsu drivers like the others. The main difference is they have slightly higher output current at 5a and if you open one up they have twice as many components inside compared to dm/m/wantai
    You can run these off the parallel port with Mach3 or LinuxCNC. It really doesn't make sense to use an external USB or Ethernet controller unless you have a very high step count for whatever reason - extra fine leadscrews, servos, extra high microstepping - which are NOT the case here. Or, you have no choice because you HAVE to use a laptop. Believe me, even the antiquated EPP parallel port has more bandwidth than the pulse frequency of the Mach3 drivers can deliver.

    I use Leadshine DM542A drives on one machine, and I can attest that they do run very smoothly and have a lot of adjustability in them.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    I think what people are trying to get across here is to be careful with E-Bay and even Amazon as you can really get screwed with pricing. It is always worth your time to check with mainstream automation suppliers and reputable electronics houses to get benchmarks for what stuff can cost locally. At the same time check on the costs of the parts in these kits if you order them from China.

    Kits in general are often costly to the buyer as somebody has to pay for the kit assembly but kit builders can go far beyond just making a profit because often the buyers don't know better. If you are on a tight budget, then you need to do as much shopping as possible. I understand the desire to rush in and get the machine running but that is an easy way to blow your budget.

    I don't know who are the common providers in Cananda but if you look at DigiKey or Newarks for catalog pricing on this sort of stuff you will get an idea as to what prices are for dealers this side of the big pond. Sometimes you can get lucky at surpluscenter.com but again check your prices as you can end up paying too much. For more of an industrial bent look at Automationdirect.com.

    Now for the most part things will be cheaper from China but this isn't always the case and you often have many unknowns. The idea here is to become aware of the cost of this stuff if bought locally.

    For stepper control the power supplies don't have to be fancy, a transformer bridge rectifier, a capacitor and a bleed resistor are often all that is needed. The trick here is hitting the right voltage.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    I am still not sure where to go from here. I've looked in a bunch of places from ebay to albaba to some specialty stores for CNC parts and everything was either bad quality or overpriced. I really need some specific help here. I know it is not an ideal solution but I am under some time constraints and really want to get going. Could someone please give me some examples (within my budget of $450 CAD) of systems, or parts of systems, that would be of decent quality? Even just parts, like if someone could hint me to a decently priced motor and driver combo with good torque curves, I'd really appreciate it. I don't want to be that guy that asks people to basically build the CNC for him but I'd rather get advice on what could work and do research then than spend weeks researching on things that probably wont work in the hopes of finding something that will.



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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonBe View Post
    I am still not sure where to go from here. I've looked in a bunch of places from ebay to albaba to some specialty stores for CNC parts and everything was either bad quality or overpriced. I really need some specific help here. I know it is not an ideal solution but I am under some time constraints and really want to get going. Could someone please give me some examples (within my budget of $450 CAD) of systems, or parts of systems, that would be of decent quality? Even just parts, like if someone could hint me to a decently priced motor and driver combo with good torque curves, I'd really appreciate it. I don't want to be that guy that asks people to basically build the CNC for him but I'd rather get advice on what could work and do research then than spend weeks researching on things that probably wont work in the hopes of finding something that will.
    I thought I gave you some good options. If you buy one of the controllers I mentioned, with the wantai steppers, and build or salvage a PSU you should be fine. Check eBay.



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    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    I thought I gave you some good options. If you buy one of the controllers I mentioned, with the wantai steppers, and build or salvage a PSU you should be fine. Check eBay.
    Sorry, you did give me some good options. Unfortunately the geckodrive is out of my range. But how about these steppers:
    http://m.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-Nema23-dual-shaft-stepper-motor-425oz-in-3A-4wires-115mm-23HS9430B-LONGS-/151329288596?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253 DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2 526meid%253De412cda17bba4c16a45a245397dd6b08%2526p id%253D100408%2526rk%253D1%2526rkt%253D25%2526sd%2 53D171356853356&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

    They use the DM542A drive.

    And how do I know how large the power supply needs to be? And what should I do for a breakout board? What is the difference between a $5 Bob and a $50 one? What does the motion control do? I thought that was what the Bob was for?

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonBe View Post
    Sorry, you did give me some good options. Unfortunately the geckodrive is out of my range. But how about these steppers:
    3pcs Nema23 Dual Shaft Stepper Motor 425oz in 3A 4WIRES 115mm 23HS9430B Longs | eBay

    They use the DM542A drive.

    And how do I know how large the power supply needs to be? And what should I do for a breakout board? What is the difference between a $5 Bob and a $50 one? What does the motion control do? I thought that was what the Bob was for?

    Thanks.
    Sorry I meant drives, not controller. A motion controller can be software - like Mach3 or LinuxCNC, or a combination of hardware and software. There are external pulse generators that offload the chore from the CPU, which can lead to smoother movement. But even a cheap or free Craigslist computer from 5 years ago or more is more than enough to run most hobby CNCs, even through the parallel port. The other benefit would be use of USB or Ethernet. But in my experience and tests, it's a waste of money unless you have extremely fine leadscrews, run servos with higher encoder counts, or you must have high microstepping set. It can be futile setting buffer size and look ahead size and getting "buffer underrun" or "buffer overrun" errors. I haven't looked lately but SmoothStepper documentation was horrendous at best. I use EdingCNC controller on one machine, and I think it's superior to Mach3. The price is high, but interface, performance, support, are great.

    A $50 breakout board may have other features such as opto-isolation for the signals to the drives, relays, spindle speed control, , . But if you choose a drive that has opto-isolated inputs it is not necessary. Technically, you don't need the BOB. You can just buy a DB25 cup for your electronics box, and solder wires to the pins. The BOB makes it far easier. $5 is worth not having to solder 15-20 tiny pins and not worry about accidentally "bridging" any of them, and a lot faster too.

    For the DM542A they can run up to 50VDC. I'd get something in the range of 48V or less. How much voltage can a stepper handle? Pretty much as much as the wire insulation is rated to, and you can keep them below max operating temperature. Current is another issue and I run mine just under the max rated current; you lose very little torque but gain in a cooler running motor.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonBe View Post

    Beware! The USB motion controller/BoB is most probably NOT Mach3 compatible, so I would not spend money on it. USB drivers are a bit tricky, many have issues and most don't work with Mach3. I also have no idea about the drivers in that link. Also the inductance of those motors is too high. Like said above already, get an UC100 or UC300, and drivers similar to DQ542MA and a cheap, standard BoB.

    In the second kit the drivers are the ones I have, the Bob seems to be different but probably works. On the other hand, the motors are even worse with even higher inductance.

    Edit: The drivers in the second kit are NOT the drivers I have. I have the DQ542MA from Wantaimotors. I don't know if there are any differences, specs look the same but not manufactured in the same factory.



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    Default Re: CNC Electronics

    Louietienza, why should I "get something in the range of 48V or less" for a driver? What difference is there between drivers above or below 48V?

    And what is the UC100 anyway? I searched it on ebay and all I get is a usb to parallel port wire?

    USB Motion Controller FOR MACH3 UC100 | eBay

    And are these items any good:

    BOB ($7.61 CAD): 1pcs 5 Axis CNC Breakout Board for Stepper Driver Controller Mach3 | eBay

    Steppers ($116.34 CAD) : High Torque Nema 23 CNC Stepper Motor 113mm 3Nm(425oz.in) 23HS45-4204S - US$

    Drivers($243.33 CAD): 1pc DQ542MA CNC Nema Hybrid Stepping Stepper Motor Driver 50V 4 2A 128 Microstep | eBay

    How do I determine what type of power supply to get?

    And do I still need a motion controller or is it built into the BOB?

    And could someone explain exactly what all the stepper motor specs like inductance, rotor inertia, etc mean, how they affect performance, and roughly what values are good?

    Last edited by BrandonBe; 04-19-2016 at 09:03 PM.


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