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    Question need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Hello all,
    Here goes my first post. I am new to cnc world so please excuse my lack of knowledge.
    I am trying to build a cnc machine with a low budget that can carve stone ,Metal, Wood, Plexiglass,....
    I would like to use is not as a hobby but as a machine to create an additional income.
    I have the Mach3 software. also I like to get the electronics as individual axis instead of all-in-one boards. I checked out the breakout boards and stepper drivers in
    Adafruit Motor/Stepper/Servo Shield for Arduino v2 Kit [v2.3] ID: 1438 - $19.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits and https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13226 .
    question 1* What is the minimum stepper motor power requirement for this operation?
    2*What type of spindle will be appropriate for this project
    I would really appreciated any help or suggestions.

    Thanks
    Alex

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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    What size machine will you be building? The arduino will only operate smaller steppers.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    I was thinking 30" x 30" working area

    Last edited by AlexJones; 11-21-2014 at 10:23 AM.


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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    If you use the Arduino, you most likely won't have enough power. I'd consider using more professional drivers. Something that can run at least 3A steppers. There are a few options I can think of that are actually cheaper than using the Arduino and stepper shields anyway. The hobbycnc EZ driver board is only $45 right now. I've run that board in production mode for two years now. If you have more money to spare, the gecko G540 is highly recommended.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Thank you Devastator,
    The G540 is out of my budget, the thing with hobbycnc EZ driver is I am kind of scared of if anything goes wrong with that board then the whole thing will be useless so i am thinking of getting 3 separate motor driver and one breakout board. and I dont think I can use Arduino with Mach3 anyway.
    I was thinking to use the boards from Adafruit or Sparkfun to get the motor drivers and breakout board.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    The sparkfun driver is rated @750ma output, the adafruit is 1.2A. These drivers are meant for small projects, not what you are proposing. If you are serious about going that route I'd suggest drivers that can output at least 2.5A like this: TinyG CNC Controller Board v8 ID: 1749 - $165.00 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits But then you are getting close to the pricing on Gecko drives. Here is one that is individual 3A bipolar drive for $35 ea.: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11611 If you go that route, you'll be in for some experimenting because I know of no one here that is doing anything similar. Not plug and play by any means.

    If you blow an axis on the hobbyCNC EZ Driver, you just replace the chip on that axis. I had to do that on mine when a chip of aluminum got into my box and shorted one of my driver chips. IIRC, it was like a $12 repair. If cost is a primary concern, the hobbycnc board is worth a look, especially if you are not afraid to do some soldering. Mine has been rock solid, but I do know some people have resonance problems with it.

    Anyway, my opinion would be to focus on your machine first. You won't need the drivers until the end of the build and you can determine at that time how much force you need to move it, which will give you an idea of what motors you need, then you'll know what your driver requirements are.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Scale down your expectations, especially if you're going for an extremely low-budget build. If you do a good job, you'll be able to carve foam, plastic and wood, but forget about metal. And stone? There's no way you're going to carve anything but soapstone, although you might be able to scratch the surface of harder stones with diamond tooling, if you provide flood cooling. As Devastator recommends, think about the motors and drives once you've built your machine and have a more realistic idea of what it's going to take to make it move at the speeds required for the materials you're (realistically) going to be dealing with.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastator View Post
    If you blow an axis on the hobbyCNC EZ Driver, you just replace the chip on that axis.
    Now I am started to liking the Hobbycnc board. I think I will go with the EZ Driver as you suggested. You are absolutely correct I have to build the machine first.
    Do you have any suggestion for the spindle? Carving stone,metal and cutting wood and Plexiglass?



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    Do you have any suggestion for the spindle? Carving stone,metal and cutting wood and Plexiglass?
    If you are on a budget, I'd use a router. A "real" spindle will cost $. I use a Bosch 1617EVS with superpid speed control. Still not cheap but I got my router on craigslist for under $50. I've even seen them cheaper if they need bearings. You can replace router bearings for under $10. Whatever router you use, research the runout before you buy, don't use one with a plastic housing, you'll want one with a round aluminum housing for easier mounting. Start building your machine and keep your eyes open for deals on a router. That's what I did.

    Very important if you plan on machining plastic.....You'll need one that you can either retrofit with a superpid or at the very least a built in speed control. Plastic needs to be cut at lower RPMs.

    I built a machine for less than $500 that is pretty capable and can do most of what you are trying to do if I go easy on it, although I haven't ever tried carving stone. If you care to check out my build, it is here:http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-wo...244-forum.html



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    You have already gotten good suggestions, especially the ones related to moderating expectations. Considering your reluctance to buy suitable electronics I would have to suggest that you don't have a chance of building a machine capable of machining metal and stone.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    Hello all,
    Here goes my first post. I am new to cnc world so please excuse my lack of knowledge.
    No problem, I'm hoping the comments you have already gotten are steering you in the right direction. There will be many opinions expressed but I think the primary one you need to register is that a low budget means a low performance machine.
    I am trying to build a cnc machine with a low budget that can carve stone ,Metal, Wood, Plexiglass,....
    Not to burst bubbles but it isn't going to happen. Each step up in materials requires dramatically stiffer machines to get passable results. A machine to carve wood would be the low end, and each step up further increases demands on the structure. Considering the very low end electronics hardware you are looking at I don't believe you have the funds to build a machine to handle all the materials mentioned. This especially the case with metals past aluminum and most stones.
    I would like to use is not as a hobby but as a machine to create an additional income.
    If the budget is a problem, it certainly is for most of us, then you need to narrow expectations. To that end I'd recommend reading a bit in these forums and further define more precisely what you want to do. You use the term carve which can mean different things to different people. You will need to define that so that you can build a suitable machine, this even if it is to only machine wood.
    I have the Mach3 software. also I like to get the electronics as individual axis instead of all-in-one boards. I checked out the breakout boards and stepper drivers in
    Adafruit Motor/Stepper/Servo Shield for Arduino v2 Kit [v2.3] ID: 1438 - $19.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits and https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13226 .
    Actually I'm not a fan of all in one boards myself. However the problem here is that you need far better performance out of the drivers to support a machine as large as you suggest.
    question 1* What is the minimum stepper motor power requirement for this operation?
    2*What type of spindle will be appropriate for this project
    I would really appreciated any help or suggestions.

    Thanks
    Alex
    Ultimately the answers to your questions depend upon the actual machine you build. For example many people employ off the shelf routers for lighter work in wood. These routers wouldn't be advisable for other materials though.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    What is your budget BTW? My advice is to build it as rigid as you can, then when it is done you will find the limitations and work within them to make money with it, all the while planning and saving for your next one. It always sounds easy when you don't know much about it.....You know, the whole "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" thing. Been there myself.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Thank you Awerby for your suggestion, I watched this video they cut soft stone.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    Thank you Awerby for your suggestion, I watched this video
    Looks like soap stone. Certainly doable on a budget. Very low cutting forces there, but you will need an accurate machine with decent resolution and no backlash. No threaded rod. Quality leadscrews instead.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    about $400.
    I talked to a screen printing shop in our area and I am getting aluminum screens (2" square tubes )from them for free and I am hoping I can use them in the structure of the machine
    as you said I like to build something that I can count on it, these are what I have in mind to do with it. create edge lit signs- personalizing wooden frames or baseball bat,...- doing wood or Corian inlay designs .Glass etching or any other promotional ideas that I see...
    I do graphic design for living and have a vinyl cutter at home and make decals and stickers and heat transfer names and logos and embroidery applique for costumers.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Thank you Wizard for your detailed notes , I would be using the machine for creating Edge lit signs- personalizing wooden frames or baseball bat,...- doing wood or Corian inlay designs .Glass etching or any other promotional ideas that I see...
    I do graphic design for living and have a vinyl cutter at home and make decals and stickers and heat transfer names and logos and embroidery applique for costumers. and I am hoping I can add more stuff by building the cnc machine.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    about $400.
    I talked to a screen printing shop in our area and I am getting aluminum screens (2" square tubes )from them for free and I am hoping I can use them in the structure of the machine
    as you said I like to build something that I can count on it, these are what I have in mind to do with it. create edge lit signs- personalizing wooden frames or baseball bat,...- doing wood or Corian inlay designs .Glass etching or any other promotional ideas that I see...
    I do graphic design for living and have a vinyl cutter at home and make decals and stickers and heat transfer names and logos and embroidery applique for costumers.
    Yup, that is a low budget. It may be possible, but only if you have the ability to make most of the parts that you'd normally have to buy, like delrin AB nuts, motor couplers etc. and get most of the raw materials for free. Still skeptical on the 4th axis to carve baseball bats within that budget. You must realize that the software to do all of this fancy stuff exceeds your budget for the machine by a large margin right? Not to mention the tooling. Yes, I brag about building my machine for a low budget, but that is not the true cost of getting up and running. The true cost is in the thousands of $.

    I don't want to discourage you, get started where you stand and spread the purchases out as you go.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastator View Post
    Still skeptical on the 4th axis to carve baseball bats within that budget. .
    I was thinking of more like this type of deep carving need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...-deep-carving-jpg
    I am hoping Mach3 will translate all my needs to the machine.
    I have access to solidworks,camworks,CorelDraw(for vector designs),photoshop( for raster designs) for designing, hopefully these would be enough to start then as you said I will purchase more equipment as I go forward.
    one question, When you said true cost in high dollars, is that the machine cost (in hardwareand electronics) only?or including the computer and design software?



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    You may want to look at these driver, These are the ones I used and have not had any problems.

    6064: 4AMP Stepper Motor Driver Kit. massmind

    I also used 1/2 threaded rod. Not sure why people are so against Threaded rod. I found most of my problems were getting the machine ridged enough.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    Thank you Wizard for your detailed notes , I would be using the machine for creating Edge lit signs- personalizing wooden frames or baseball bat,...- doing wood or Corian inlay designs .Glass etching or any other promotional ideas that I see...
    This helps as what you describe is more of what I would call engraving vs carving. Unfortunately engraving for the most part requires a precision machine. This impacts the build costs.

    You also don't want to get mislead by some of the videos online. The video you posted earlier is a few minutes long, however the actual machine time would be much longer.
    I do graphic design for living and have a vinyl cutter at home and make decals and stickers and heat transfer names and logos and embroidery applique for costumers. and I am hoping I can add more stuff by building the cnc machine.
    You can certainly expand your business in this way, I just suspect that the machine will be far more than you suspect. I'd go back though some of the build logs to get an idea of what guys run into for problems, costs and surprises. There will be surprises if you haven't built machine tools before. Hell there will be surprises even if you have been doing it for years.

    As far as building the machine, you will need to focus more on accuracy than if this was a machine for rough wood working. This means you need to build a rigid and accurate machine. Designing one is not that difficult but if you don't have a sense of what good practice is you may want to post your design here for comments before spending money on it. Little details can impact performance as much as the bigger issues.



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    Default Re: need help building a CNC router to carve Stone.Metal,Plastic.Wood,...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJones View Post
    about $400.
    I talked to a screen printing shop in our area and I am getting aluminum screens (2" square tubes )from them for free and I am hoping I can use them in the structure of the machine
    They might work and free gives you incentive to make them work. Ideally you would go with a bigger beam for the gantry. I have experience wi 2" square tubing and for a machine the size you suggest it might do the job.
    as you said I like to build something that I can count on it, these are what I have in mind to do with it. create edge lit signs- personalizing wooden frames or baseball bat,...- doing wood or Corian inlay designs .Glass etching or any other promotional ideas that I see...
    The big problem here is that you will need good precision and repeatability for engraving work. That takes more effort in the machine build.
    I do graphic design for living and have a vinyl cutter at home and make decals and stickers and heat transfer names and logos and embroidery applique for costumers.




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