Help with drive component upgrades


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    Default Help with drive component upgrades

    I am in the process of upgrading my original prototype machine (2' x 4' cutting area 3' x 5' foot print) to a 'final' version and would like to upgrade the speed of the machine in the process.

    I am currently using Xylotex 269oz motors on all axis (2 on Y axis) driven by a 24v 6.5A power supply, a Rockcliff driver board (similar to the Xylotex boards) and 1/8 stepping and 1/2-10 single start screws with DIY lead nuts.

    I would like to keep as much of the drive components as possible, but I am looking to upgrade to dumpstercnc nuts and better lead screws. I was thinking that I could get away with 1/2-8-2 start lead screws without changing the motors.

    My top speed (cutting and rapid) at the moment is only 30-36 ipm, but I think that is due to resonance issues, the Rockcliff board has a Percent Fast Decay adjustment that is suppose to help with this, but I haven't messed with it yet.

    My hope would be to double my cutting speed to 60 ipm and be able to rapid faster (I'll take what I can get). I am not set on this, and I am willing to switch things out so I thought I would ask for suggestions. I also have the option of switching to a single Y lead screw and money to replace other things if need be, just trying to spend it slowly

    Any help would be appreciated, I have read a bunch of post, but not many of this deal with dual screws and where as I think 2 269oz motors should should be able to handle 1/2-10-5 start lead screws, my conservative nature says to use the 1/2-8-2.

    Here are a few picture to get an idea of the machines:

    Old Machine:


    New Machine:


    Smaller prototype of new machine:


    I have had the small prototype of the new machine up to 60 IPM with the pretty much the same drive components (220oz motors, single Y lead screw). Since the gantry on the larger machine only marginal heavier, I would think 2 269oz should make it fly.

    I'll stop typing now... thanks in advance.

    -GrumpyGeek

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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Do you have dual shaft motors? If so, making dampers may double your speeds.

    I use 250 oz motors with a Xylotex, and 1/2-8 2 start screws. My dual driven X axis is set at 155ipm, and my Y axis is set at 190ipm.
    But I had to add dampers to make is usable.
    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJjivsVwSsQ"]‪Stepper Motor Damper Test.‬‏ - YouTube[/nomedia]

    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    I temporarily replaced the 1/2-10 one start screws and DumpsterCNC nuts with 1/2-10 5 start screws and DumpsterCNC nuts on my oak frame Solsylva 25x37 machine with Xylotex driver, 425oz-in motors, and 24vdc PSU. The best it would jog was 30ipm without stalling using the one start ACME screws. It would jog at 200+ipm on all axes after the lead screw change over.

    I'm now using the same 5 start screws, same DumpsterCNC nuts, a new G540, 48vdc PSU, and 380oz-in motors on my latest steel frame 25x37 build and it jogs at 600ipm on all axes. It hasn't been given a cut job yet but I think it should not stall below 300ipm (maybe higher) under a normal load.

    You will not go wrong by changing the lead screws and nuts to either type multi-start screws. A higher voltage driver and PSU will give you even more speed. Change to multi-start screws first, then change the driver and PSU later if you find the need for even more speed.

    Also, two of my machines are dual motors on the long axis (X and slaved A). No problems with that now.

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Thanks guys,

    I have seen the damper discussion before, I do have dual shaft motors, so it looks like I should go ahead and build a set. I just need to source the slugs... I have some scrap 1/2" acme rod, but cutting 36 slugs with a hack saw is not my idea of fun, you think I could get away with using 5/16 Nuts as slugs? If not I guess I should go buy a cut off saw at HF.

    Do you think I can get away with the 2 tpi nuts with the 269oz motors and the 24v supply? I have drivers coming that can allegedly handle up to 37v @ 3.5A, so I could look for a power supply upgrade to help with the transition.

    The nook screws and dumpstercnc stuff is pricey, so I want to get the best bang for the buck (who doesn't?).

    Thanks again,
    GrumpyGeek



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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    I used 1/2" carriage bolts for the slugs, and cut them with a angle grinder.

    I've also made some using brass rod, which I cut on my table saw with a cutoff sled. More expensive, but much easier to make.

    Do you think I can get away with the 2 tpi nuts with the 269oz motors and the 24v supply? I have drivers coming that can allegedly handle up to 37v @ 3.5A, so I could look for a power supply upgrade to help with the transition.
    That's difficult to answer, as it's basically a guess. Unless someone else has done it.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Penny Dampers

    The only thing holding me back from making dampers was the lack of will to cut all the slugs, so I decided to make some using pennies. These are made from MDF, 3 pieces with 8 pennies per hole (5) (40 pennies is just over 3.5 oz), the center hole is used for the coupling. I had 4 DIY couplings that I was unhappy with the lead screw alignment, but they worked perfectly for this. I made one with a clear cover just for fun (looks like a commemorative coin set), other than being a little oversized I think they look nice... I'll report back once I test them and see if they actually work .

    -GrumpyGeek.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Help with drive component upgrades-dsc07065_small-jpg   Help with drive component upgrades-dsc07075_small-jpg   Help with drive component upgrades-dsc07081_small-jpg  


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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    If it's doesn't work, try gluing the pennies together, to make heavier slugs. You might also want to try one with 9 slugs.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    That's a slick way to build the slug style dampener. Should the holes be larger than the pennies so that they have more room to rattle around?

    CarveOne

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Yes. My holes are about .05 bigger.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Penny Damper Test

    Well I finally got a chance to do a bit of testing with the dampers, they seem to work fairly well. I was able to raise my Y axis IPM from 36 to 54 (18 IPM), so there is definitely some benefit.

    Here is a not so short youtube video of the results:

    In other news, my DumpsterCNC couplings and nuts showed up yesterday, and my Roton 1/2 8-2 screws should be here Monday. These are going into a replacement of the machine in the video, so it we be a few weeks before it is all up and running... I can't wait

    The holes for the pennies are .8 which just so happens to be .05 bigger, I think I may have looked at a dxf file for this.

    Thanks for all the help, the adventure continues.

    -GrumpyGeek



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    Not trying to hijack the thread, but the damper suggestion raised some questions for me. I'm using a Keling bundle of 387 oz motors, a 48V PSU and the Gecko 540, plus 1/2 X 10 single start acme screws. I'm currently getting rapids of about 60-70 ipm, and I normally cut at about 30 to 50 ipm, according to the material I'm cutting.

    Now the questions....how do I detect if I'm getting resonance. I know what it is, but have no idea how to find out if it's a problem. Since my motors have dual shafts, should I just go ahead and try some type of dampers and see if I get any improvements on speeds.



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    @JC50 - One of the feature of the Gecko Drivers is "Mid-band resonance compensation" so you probably don't need to worry about. From everything I have read, your speeds are in line with what to expect with 10 tpi screws (although I have seen people reporting 120 ipm, but the is the exception).

    Did a post on my site for the Penny Dampers, just adding it here to tie everything together, a few additional pictures, everything else is pretty much the same.

    If anyone else tries these, I would be curious to here your results.

    -GrumpyGeek



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Help with drive component upgrades
Help with drive component upgrades