Reply with QuoteDeath = Stress
Stress = Mistakes
Scott,
Truly sorry about your loss, but a simple message on your business's voice mail explaining your situation would have done you some good here. I understand that a loss of your father is truly devastating but your all caps response to someone who had no clue of your current situation is rude at best.
Now if Dwalsh62 new of your loss your response is appropriate.
My condolences,
Death = Stress
Stress = Mistakes
http://www.glenspeymillworks.com Techno LC4896 - 2.2Kw Water Cooled Spindle | Moving Table Mill from Omis 3 CMM, 500Lb granite base | Epilog Legend 32 Laser Engraver
Scott
Sending my condolences to you and your family. Be strong
I do hope that it is only a misunderstanding with dwalsh62
Russell
www.vapourforge.com ..................I recycle electrons.
I don't believe it is anything more than misunderstandings and confusion caused by the stress over his loss and I hold no ill thoughts over the incident or towards him, **** happens in life and you just have to grin and bare it.Originally Posted by advt001
From my perspective, Scott, we spoke monday night, you said you were going home wednesday and you would call me wednesday night, when I received no call wednesday night or a return call for the messages I left thursday during the day how is that be construed as rude since I wasn't aware that your plans had changed?
Several weeks ago I explained the importance of the work being done before anything happened, I asked you to call me on the phone if there are delays or issues that would affect delivery and I had to find out after the fact on the following monday night through e-mail that you had an issue to deal with which at the time of your writing was not a loss but a notice that time is near and that you would be back monday or tuesday.
I am not a mind reader and getting bent out of shape because I called at a time which was not good for you (I was unaware of this) and later when you were to call me you didn't for whatever valid (acknowledged) reason.
I can sympathize with your loss, but the lack of communication and working under a dictated schedule that I can not alter (which I explained to you) forces me to make decisions regarding my trip to China and as a courtesy to those interested in the ATC spindle I offered an explanation based on the information I had as to why the project was being delayed because you know, people will be complaining because it's not available as predicted.
For the last three weeks I have spent pretty much every waking hour trying to get things done to take to China because that is the schedule set by the manufacturer that I have to work under.
As you know, I lost a week of work at the beginning of January due to my stupidity of attempting to make my own cut files or I should say lack of ability to make cut files that work properly and I destroyed two mill tables because it decided to move the tool through the table to move it to a different location because I didn't step through the entire cut file to make sure it was good and fired up two machines simultaneously (the reason why I have someone else make the files for me) and this didn't prevent the majority of the work from being completed.
As I said, I can sympathize with your loss but it's hard to make compensations and adjustments when you don't know what's going on and can't contact anyone.
Scott and I have since talked and I believe everything is in good standing so suffice it to say, the status has changed and this is what has been decided, I am going to go ahead to China, the parts are being made and delivered middle of next week, they will be assembled and shipped to me in China which allows just enough time with the manufacturer for the demonstration of functionality and disassembly of the components and to go over the drawings and answer questions.
Scott has assured me the cast pieces will be done and shipped, final assembly before shipping to China has been scheduled and is a top priority (all other work stops when the parts come in).
I will have to trust that these things are under control and will be handled in my absence because I wont be around to do anything about it and it is a risk I have to take, this gives me three days with the spindle and manufacturer before I return which is sufficient time so we should be OK.
The ATC spindle has been cycling tool holders for 49 continuous hours (1872 changes - roughly every 1.5 minutes) without a single issue, remeasured force is 669lbs, just down from 672lbs so loss is well within acceptable limits (630lbs is the minimum) and this leave me time today to add the recessed safety lock C-clips to the linear slides for the air-cylinder and a little clean-up on the exterior of the body and then pack it for transport.
I don't have time to make a rear cover to hide the air-cylinder and electric fan so I will leave this to the manufacturer to make something appropriate.
So far this is what I have:
- 3.0KW BT20 ATC spindle
- square body.
- integrated spindle mount.
- 120mm x 120mm x 250mm (size grew just a little).
- 4 pole (8 pcs) silicon magnet (subject to change).
- statically balanced (manufacturer will dynamically balance).
- 100 - 9000 RPM - 11A @300hz / 100 - 12000 RPM - 14A @400hz.
- 240VAC 90mm x 90mm x 38mm Electic Fan Cooling (37CFM air-flow - subject to change - I used what I could find quickly).
- 46db noise (like a computer fan).
- 16 position (subject to change) linear R&P BT20 tool holder changer with optical safety and position sensors.
- a DIY (USA made courtesy of Scott) desktop vertical mill to mount the spindle and linear changer (also to be made available in kit form to anyone who wants it).
While I used cold-hardening due to it's availability/accessibility to me, the manufacturer will be using traditional hardening methods which are more than adequate for the spindle needs.
The only thing that can cause a problem now will be the non-delivery of the assembly to me in China so all I can do is keep my fingers crossed that nothing comes up that people can't handle on their own.
My contact while in China will be quite limited so people wont be hearing from me until my return however, I will try to get online and provide an update on the status of things if and when I can.
Glad to hear the ATC Spindle is moving forward!
I'm sure there are many of us waiting patiently for this spindle.
Thanks for the update!
My trip has been cut short due to circumstances beyond my control which are not yet entirely clear, it will take me a few days to look into things and then I will leave a detailed post outlining the status of the project.
The ATC spindle and vertical tool changer are on temporary hold and if you know anything about chinese culture you will understand better than most how my failure to plan properly has impacted the project and affected others.
I made arrangements to have a machine made to hold the weight of the components because a Proxonn or shireline are too flimsy however, I didn't allow sufficient time to cover casting issues because of my selection of material (steel vs iron) or delays affecting delivery and well, here in the US, if something is delayed and not delivered on time it's not a serious thing but in a culture where honor and integrity are the backbone of society, failure to produce on time is a serious matter and is seen as a sign of poor honor and integrity which has serious repercussions so my failure to deliver has placed my friend in an uncomfortable situation and the full extent is still unknown to me.
My current struggle now is in making an effort for my friend to save face and I'm not even sure if this is possible but I will make an effort to do this just the same.
I can only blame myself for the failure as a result of poor planning and yes, I can find all kinds of excuses like the lack of help in making parts but this doesn't change the fact that the machine would not have been done on time no matter what I planned, the person making the cast parts did everything he could to make the parts and continued to make the parts after I had already left in the hopes that the machine could be assembled and delivered to me but since this was the first run there was no way he could have known what problems he would have to resolve so I can't blame him and the week I lost due my own stupidity still wouldn't have allowed enough time to have the parts cast properly.
Obviously I didn't get to make the retooling and so the best I can hope for is to make things right for my friend (or as much as I can) and hopefully meet the July retooling schedule.
At this time I have one ATC spindle that has been well tested and a vertical tool changer that also works well but looks rather ugly and with the bulk of the work done, cosmetics are the only thing left to do.
I'll be able to use the time to making the ATC spindle more attractive in appearance and make covers for the tool changer to hide the R&P but those will have to wait until I have done my best to make things right for my friend who has been severely affected by my inability to produce as promised and I recognize that this all falls on me with no one else to blame for the failure.
I realize many people will be disappointed and all I can do is offer an apology for my incompetence in handling this project.
Any news on this front?
Waking this from the grave with the same question
Re: Inexpensive spindle with ATC.
Chinese ATC spindles in this power and price range are now pretty available. I haven't read anything on how good they are though. Not too surprising, I wouldn't want to drop $2000 on something that might be crap.
Re: Inexpensive spindle with ATC.
Good on you for trying to bring a new (and needed) product to market when you saw a gap. Most people will say something like "somebody should make a xx, there would be a huge market...." and then just get on with their day. It takes an entrepreneur to be that "somebody".
I feel your pain in dealing with Chinese manufacturers. It's one of the hardest and most frustrating places to buy from if you don't have local people over there to help. I can also relate to the stress of managing customer expectations with delays to product launches. I never take orders (or talk about) new products before I am ready anymore. It's too hard to predict how long it will take to solve all the problems you don't know about yet.
on the square vs round spindle thing, I am not sure that the shape is what makes a difference. Based on what I have read, a square housing might allow then to use a larger motor and fan but it doesn't guarantee it. It's exactly the sort of trick that Chinese vendors like to exploit. They used to do something similar with cameras. Good cameras were heavy so they put weights in crappy cameras to make them feel less cheap.
The outside casing is just that, as your friend found out. It doesn't mean much on it's own. You can put the cheapest round spindle in a square or triangular box without changing the cutting capability one bit. You can also put crappy bearings in a square spindle and quality ones in a round one.
The diamater and length of the motor does effect torque and therefore cutting capability. I am no expert but I have read enough to know that, for cutting metal, you want a large high torque motor. A larger motor delivers more torque than increasing the power consumption or speed . Most mills and CNC mills use a seperate motor for this reason. I.e. They can use a larger one than would be possible in units with integral motors.
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