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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    We're still working on the installations. We might both have them running within the week, though.
    Thanks ger21, I'm trying to keep up with the thread and just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

    Keep up the good work.. anxiously awaiting some reviews.

    Adam,



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    Sorry if I missed it but can the LCD display be mounted remote from the main board.
    Is it plugged in or would I have to remove solder connections?



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    Roman,

    Are the mains A terminal the "hot" wire and the N terminal the "neutral" wire? I assumed that when I wired it today and just wanted confirmation before powering it up. I didn't find anything in the PDF document that mentions that specifically.

    I didn't plan to add a fan in the standard issue Super-PID, but will do so on the one that you modified for the PC7518. I have a small fan from a computer that is 0.42" x 1.6" x 1.6" that is of unknown voltage that I can add to this Super-PID if I mount it above the display and put some holes in the rear cover. I'll see if it moves any air on 5vdc and consider installing it. I can run 12vdc from my control box if it is a 12vdc fan. The only other fan I have is 4" square, 12vdc, and is unreasonably large.

    CarveOne

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    RedskinsJBS- Please contact Val at SuperPID.com web site, I don't do the sales. Just mention you want the modified version. The videos show fairly light cuts, but even with heavier cuts the router will probably be under half-power especially if the router size and speeds/feeds etc are all chosen properly.

    Adam_m- The modified version is currently the same price. In future it may be a few dollars more, but our present thinking is that the Super-PID will probably end up as one single model that just suits all routers.

    Revwarguy- Audible router noise is generally it's cooling fan. At 5000 RPM my router is practically silent and all the noise comes from stepper motors and the cutting bit. At 10000 RPM it is still pleasantly quiet and I do lots of work in the 8000-12000 range, by 15000 the noise is getting a little irritating and I use my ear muffs.

    Re your question for your Colt router, at 15000 with the SuperPID you should get a good increase in power and RPM stability compared to the Colt speed control that is fairly crude. You also get the option of much quieter running, longer bearing life etc by using lower speeds. I'm finding I use different cutting tools now, like my 6mm and 5mm 4-flute endmills (and lower RPM) for plastic now instead of 2 flute tools and higher RPM. I'm getting a better cutting finish and greatly reduced noise.

    Please say if you have a specific cutting task in oak, I can buy a chunk of oak hardwood flooring and do some tests and a video. You may find that instead of using 20000 RPM and a crude carbide wood router bit it might be possible to use a nice sharp HSS endmill and much lower RPMs.

    Lovebugjunkie- One of the quality features is that the LCD is plugged in. You could mount the LCD remotely with a cable that you would probably have to make yourself. I'm not sure how long you can make the cable before noise etc becomes a problem, maybe a few feet provided it is not near power cables. Ideally the SuperPID, its LCD and speed knob should all be close to each ohter and to the user, with the sensor being remote (because the sensor has noise filtering, the LCD doesn't).

    CarveOne- Yes the A is LINE and the N is NUETRAL. It shouldn't matter which is which, as this is AC and the live circuitry is not earthed, by for neatness I always connect them correctly.

    That small fan and a piece of aluminum for the sink should work fine. It sounds like a 40mm 12v mini-fan, they usually work on 5v and still move some air. Use the fan to extract air from the enclosure, and the air inlet holes should ideally be on the opposite side to give cross-flow. You probably know all that!



  5. #125
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    Magnet rings for spindle RPM (hall sensor).

    The tiny supermagnets I ordered arrived;
    (small) 3mm(dia)x2mm, weight 0.106g
    (larger) 6mm(dia)x1.5mm, weight 0.322g

    These are common sizes, and even the tiny 3x2 magnet will operate a standard Honeywell SS441A hall switch from 5 to 6 mm distance, the larger 6x1.5 magnet will operate the hall switch from 8 to 10mm.

    I chose supermagnets for this application as they have much lower mass for the same field strength, and the least mass that is spinning at 30000 RPM the better!

    Below you can see a picture of 3 ring mounts. The first test ring mount I made is at the bottom, this is 5mm thick plastic, 28mm diameter, to press fit onto a 15.4mm round router shaft. The two magnet pockets are not cut all the way though, and was designed to hold one magnet and one inert balance weight (like a 3mm brass nut). The plastic material is a structural engineering plastic called PETP that is very rigid but having tested it now I would choose Delrin (polyacetal copolymer).

    The 2 top test rings I have just cut and are slightly improved. They are Delrin, not as hard as the PETP but a higher melt point and incredible resistance to breaking. I reduced the outer diameter to 26mm, and improved the strength of the press fit points by thickening the entire outer ring. They are 8mm thick, which I just faced down from a 10mm Delrin sheet.

    The magnet pockets were cut just deep enough to mount the magnets at the middle of the ring's thickness. I did tests of both magnet sizes... There is not much functional difference, the small magnets easily trigger a hall a sensor placed 2mm away from the ring, the larger magnets allow the sensor to be placed a bit further away but this has little benefit. At this point I would choose the smaller magnets for less mass, stronger plastic overall support and they will be less likely to pick up crud.

    The small 3x2 magnets can be mounted in a ring as thin as 3mm, this covers a point made by Ger21 earlier that some routers may have limited clearance on the spindle to mount sensors.

    Note! These rings still need a few drops of epoxy in the magnet pockets to permanently fix the magnets. I would not rely on a press fit to secure the magnets.

    Thanks to Al_the_man for suggesting the dual reversed (N-S) magnet idea, it works well and is superior to my idea of using an inert balance weight as it ensures perfect balance.

    I'm not convinced that this type of sensor is necessarily "better" than the optical sensor. It is more immune to dust buildup but then it is more sensitive to picking up magnetic crud, and it needs a more complex installation, specialised manufacturing to suit each router type and higher cost etc. I'm sticking with the optical sensor on mine, but in the meantime I will talk with Val about the possibility of offering a magnetic sensor as a low cost accessory for people who think this sensor type may suit their needs better, mainly for the most common router models.

    I'm also open to suggestions on possible improvements to the ring mount, and suggestions on other mounts to hold the standard optical sensor on different routers. Thanks!

    (I will upload a youtube of cutting these mounts in a couple of hours)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-hall_rings2-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-hall_rings1-jpg  


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    I found a piece of hard flooring timber, it's an Australian redwood I think it might be jarrah or ironbark(?), anyway it's really hard, it seems about as hard and heavy as aluminium so I used speeds and feeds similar to what I would use in aluminium. It had some oil rubbed in at some point in the past, from memory this was a colour sample piece from the timber store.

    This was cut as an exercise for quietness (to help with your wife's ears Revwarguy!) and used a 3mm diameter 4-flute upcut HSS endmill (a metalwork tool) and running at 12000 RPM. I'm sure even 10000 RPM would have been fine, with slightly larger chips.

    Speed was 22 IPM with a single cut of 1.3mm depth.

    It was nice and quiet and pretty fast to cut, taking just over a minute. I am totally hopeless with wood, and have never CNC'd hardwoods so I don't know if this is a good cut result or not. The chips seemed pretty good size to me, with no airborne or fine dust etc and the cut surfaces look very clean. This is straight off the machine, just brushed, no sanding or finishing has been done apart from running my fingernail around a couple of the edges to dislodge some loose stuff. I'm not sure how people normally get rid of those tiny fibres on the cut edges? Maybe using a tool that was not an upcut type or by finishing/sanding etc?

    The Super-PID was running about 25% power out to my 850 W router when cutting the wood and about 20% power when cutting air. I can do another one with Video but Youtube just crashed on me half way into a 3 hour upload (of the magnet rings) so uploads may have to wait until I get to a friends house with faster broadband.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-hardwood1-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-hardwood2-jpg  


  7. #127
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    Well, with service like that, how can I refuse? Thanks for running the test cut!

    I will be ordering one for use with a Bosch Colt (probably upgrade to a larger one someday for something - do I need the heavier TRIAC?) a G540 (so I would like to be able to set the RPM from the Mach3 screen while its running to avoid chasing the gantry) and I cut aluminum, wood, and plastic (I picked oak only as an example of a reasonably hard wood that is reasonably available here - I forgot you are down under. Would love to see some of that stuff you have there!)

    I already run +12 to the Z axis and like the idea of seeing the tach there, so can I just add a 7805 and a cap to power this? Didn't see current requirements on your instructions document, but looking at the board, I don't see much in the way of power consumption. Would I need a heatsink for the 7805?

    Would anyone who's already modified a Colt for this please PM me about it?

    Thanks for being so responsive. Looking forward to a quieter operation!

    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright


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    Default new spindle

    Can you post a picture of the optical sensor along with dimensions. I am in the process a building a new spindle and want to incorporate an opening for the sensor.



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    This was cut as an exercise for quietness (to help with your wife's ears Revwarguy!) and used a 3mm diameter 4-flute upcut HSS endmill (a metalwork tool) and running at 12000 RPM. I'm sure even 10000 RPM would have been fine, with slightly larger chips.

    Speed was 22 IPM with a single cut of 1.3mm depth.
    For a 1/8" bit (3mm), I'd use a 2 flute spiral for wood, at about 18,000 rpm and 250-300ipm, at up to 1/8" depth per pass.

    You feedrates are on the conservative side.

    Also, those little magnets are the ones I was asking about for the home switches. Do you still think they're too strong?

    Gerry

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  10. #130
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    Revwarguy- The standard SuperPID uses a 16 amp TRIAC so it's suitable for all routers apart from the real big ones (like the PC7518). If you are sure you will go to a huge router later than by all means order the modded version.

    The Super-PID consumes around 100mA at +5v, most of that is the display and it varies a little for the different display types. Assuming 120mA at 5v from 12v gives you a heat dissipation of around 0.84W at the 7805 regulator, so a tiny clipon heatsink on the 7805 would be fine.

    I would like to personally help with your Colt modification, I'm collecting data and photos etc that can be used to help other users.

    Jjobezo- Sorry I don't have access to the production sensors here on a Sunday, I can post a picture tomorrow. Basically the sensor is on the very end of a cable which is about 4mm in diameter, and the whole thing incuding sensor and heatshrink tube should fit in a 6mm hole.

    Ger21- Haha so I was very slow cutting that hey? Well I wanted to try hardwood at 10000 RPM for quietness, and a 4 flute bit, so would that be 9000 RPM and 250 IPM? Sounds a bit scary on my little machine, that wood is years old and rock hard it sounds like ceramic when you whack it like a "plink plink", nothing like pine or MDF.

    The small size in those supermagnets (3x2mm or 4x1.5mm) have a similar field strength to maybe 8mm sized black magnets, so they should be accurate for the home sensors. I did some testing for you, if you mount the magnets at 90' to the sensor it sharpens the detect zone when moving from N to S. That may also reduce crud pickup as the edge of the magnet is the part exposed, not a N or S face. I will post details in the home sensor thread when I get some time.



  11. #131
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    Here's a pic with my PC690. The sensor is sort of square shaped, and is about 4mmx5mm. I think it'll fit in a 5mm or 3/16" hole.

    With the PC 690, though I only have about 3/16" of height in two areas, at the top and bottom area of the photo. On the sides, the body extends down almost flush with the hex.
    I think I'm going to make a small clamp and tap the top hole in the pic to mount it (the hole with the dust in it). I need to make it very small, and mount it toward the back, because it'll be easy to have the wrench hit it and possibly damage it.

    Looking at it again, maybe just a dab of silicone and a plastic zip tie, if I can line it up. Although I don't really want to us an adhesive, because I want to be able to remove it for bearing changes if needed. (The router's over 15 years old. )

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-sensor-jpg  
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    Hi Roman,
    As i was away from my home town, my wife got the SuperPID a week ago and i just arrived and saw the see-worthy packaging...

    My Comments:
    1- The packaging/Packing is awesome.
    2- I got the SuperPID along with all accessories without damage
    3- The Quality of PCB and the component mounts are high quality.

    Now I have to check the running quality of the SuperPID and will comment on it... But before i have to do lot of things...

    My CNC Machine decommission 8-months ago, yesterday i cleaned all the lead screws with CARBURATOR CLEANER spray and now i am going to apply molykote...

    I downloaded Mach3 and made all the settings... Still have to power-up the controller board .. afraid from the smoky things!!!!

    I have to make the SuperPID mountings and enclosures....

    I hope i will soon involve in discussion...
    Regards

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
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    I just ordered my SuperPID for use with a Colt. Looks simple to modify the variable speed, but at only $100 buying the non-variable one is an option too.

    Update: it's dead simple to modify the Colt. One screw on the top and the cap pulls right off (photo1). Then the triac (BTB16-600B) is a 16A non-isolated tab model (photo2). Photo3 shows the backside of the board.

    -Jay

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-colt1_640-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-colt2_640-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-colt3_800-jpg  
    Last edited by Jay C; 11-07-2010 at 12:05 PM.


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    Roman, you might want to add dimensions of the board and mounting holes in the .pdf, to make it easier for those building an enclosure.

    Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay C View Post
    I just ordered my SuperPID for use with a Colt. Looks simple to modify the variable speed, but at only $100 buying the non-variable one is an option too.

    Update: it's dead simple to modify the Colt. One screw on the top and the cap pulls right off (photo1). Then the triac (BTB16-600B) is a 16A non-isolated tab model (photo2). Photo3 shows the backside of the board.

    -Jay
    Good photos. I have one of these with speed control that I will modify during my ongoing testing.

    Thanks,

    CarveOne

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    I've just posted some photos (over in my build log) of the Ryobi 1.5hp router sensor installation and a couple of screen shots.

    Mark my words, this will forever change the meaning of "blue screen porn".

    CarveOne

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    Default It's ALIVE!!

    The Super-PID is fully awake now and runs like a champ! Somehow, I managed to avoid the smoke stage so far. Don't know how that happened, but I'm happy. More photos posted over in my build log.

    Notes: I've noticed that the silkscreen for the fuse does not match the PDF manual's stated value. That needs to be reconciled on the next artwork change.

    The Wite-Out will flake off when the shaft lock is being operated. I'll use an Xacto knife and trim it off where it gets rubbed by the push plate and repaint the bare metal spot with black paint. The sensor is higher than this point around the shaft.

    CarveOne

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    Since CarveOne is way ahead of me, I figured I need to at least try to one up his installation. I noticed a piece of 1-1/2" acrylic in the garage, so I figured I'd try to carve a box out of it. Here's what I have so far.

    Tomorrow I need to find a piece of 1/4" acrylic for the cover, and drill and tap the mounting holes for it. They're already marked with an 1/8" hole.

    I used this bit from CNC Toybox to cut the acrylic, and it cut great!!
    cnctoybox
    Too bad it only had a 1" cutting length, as I had to switch to a longer 2 flute upcut bit to finish the cut. I left the bottom 1/2" .005 bigger, so it didn't mess up the smooth finish at the top part. If my machine was more rigid, it would probably be close to polished. It's still really good, though. I'll sand it with 600 grit and polish it up so it looks really cool.

    My control box is near the floor, so I'm going to mount this to the side of the gantry, where I'll be able to see the display much easier, as well as have much better access to the speed pot.

    As soon as I get the cover cut, I'll swap out the router for the PC 690 I'll be using.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-sp_01-sm-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-sp_02-sm-jpg  
    Gerry

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    It's funny how I still head for the tool box instead of the CAD program when I need to make something. I gotta get out of that mode so I can learn something about the CNC software and procedures. It comes from the pace I have been keeping up trying to modify everything so much.

    Don't worry about me getting ahead of you. I have three more routers to test not counting the HF trim router. My Colt is destined to replace it anyway. The M12VC and the PC7518 looks easy to install the sensor on. I haven't looked at the Colt yet. All of these have built in speed controls to modify.

    CarveOne

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    Here are two pictures of the non-speed controlled version of the Bosch Router (PR10E) - one shows which screw to remove and carefully pull off the cover, and the other shows the TRIAC's position on the board. This TRIAC is the same BTB16-600B as in Jay's post.

    (The Jay's speed controlled model below is the PR20EVSK - Mine has evidently seen some use!)

    ger21 - Are you using CarveOne's box dimensions? If you have measured the hole layout for mounting the SuperPID board, I would appreciate having them. How deep does this box really need to be? I have been laying out a CNC toolpath to make a box out of some glued up layers of birch plywood. You going to do anything for airflow?

    How is it you guys always seem to just have 1 1/2 acrylic just lying around your garage? Seems I have to scour the earth for materials every time I want to build a project!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-colttop-jpg   Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller-colttriac-jpg  
    Last edited by revwarguy; 11-08-2010 at 11:24 AM.
    "72.6 per cent of all statistics are made up on the spot." - Steven Wright


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