Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller

[RomanLini]

The instructions are done.

I don't know when they are going up on SuperPID.com so in the meantime I have put a copy up here for anyone to download (400 kb PDF);
SuperPID_Inst.pdf

[CarveOne]

The instructions are done.

I don't know when they are going up on SuperPID.com so in the meantime I have put a copy up here for anyone to download (400 kb PDF);
SuperPID_Inst.pdf

Thanks! Will read it later today when I get the chance.

CarveOne

[restless1]

Ordered mine good thing for pay pal...
One question in the PDF am I to assume A and N refer to the American
L and N which means Line and Neutral

[Al_The_Man]

Roman, I noticed in the PDF (quote below) there was a reference to the low voltage to be kept isolated from the main router AC supply, but the low voltage is allowed to be connected to the PC.
But I believe if you have a PC that has the typical connection of the M.B. ground plane (P.S. common) connected to earth ground conductor and the fact that in N.A. and I believe in Australia too, that the 120/240 is referenced directly to earth ground via the grounded neutral, there would be no isolation present?
Mains power N=PC GND.
Al.

**Quote**
High and low voltages and opto-isolation.
The Super-PID circuit board is divided into 2 sections; the high voltage
section that controls the mains power to the router, and the low voltage
section that contains the brain circuitry, the display, and the speed control
pot.
The two sections are fully isolated from each other, using opto-isolators.
In use, the low voltage section can safely be electrically connected to your
PC and other grounded devices but the high voltage section is dangerous
and should be connected ONLY to your AC mains supply (ie; the power
point) and to the router.
Grounding (Earthing).
The Super-PID does not require grounding and you should NOT connect
ground to any part of the high-voltage connector. However, your router
may have a 3-wire power cable, where one wire is ground. In that case
you can connect the mains ground to your router ground if desired (see
wiring diagram). It is not advisable to connect the mains ground to the
low-voltage ground on the smaller connector, the low voltage ground is
usually connected elsewhere (like at your PC).

[ger21]

Got my Super PID today. Couple questions.

1)

If a PC or control device is connected, it sends a 5v logic signal to the
"RUN" connection; +5v = RUN, 0v = STOP. The PC or control device also
needs to be connected to the low-voltage ground. If you wish to control
the Super-PID manually (ie; stand-alone with no PC), simply connect a
switch between the "RUN" connection and the low-voltage ground. When
the switch is closed, the router will be STOPPED.

Is this right? Seems backwards to me? Wouldn't the closed switch send 5V also? And wouldn't not being connected to the PC be the same as no 5V being sent from the PC?? Seems very contradicting, but I'm no electronics expert.

2) How and where do I connect the PWM from Mach3?

3) I'm assuming using the 5V from a hard drive cable is OK? Or do I need to cut open a USB cable?

4) On the sensor, the shield is tied to the G terminal?

5) I'm guessing it's OK to test without the AC connected?



Observations/ Suggestions

I'd like to see screw terminals for the pot and sensor, as well as the 2 optional switches. I think that having the pot and sensor soldered to the board may make installation more work than needed for a some people.

I's think that most users will need to run the sensor through a hole in the box, then through a cable track (or two), to a Z axis, and then to some type of mount. Having it pre wired makes this a tricky task. Since I need mine to be much longer, I'm thinking of cutting it about 12" from the sensor, and splicing into my new cable that's already run through my IGUS carriers.

Do you have a part number for the sensors?

Those switches are way too small for me. I'll get some toggle switches If I decide to connect them.

[CarveOne]

Mine arrived today also. No damage. Looks good. Now to make a suitable box for it.

CarveOne

[ger21]

Mine arrived today also. No damage. Looks good. Now to make a suitable box for it.

CarveOne

Any idea on how you plan to mount the sensor? I was just looking at my PC 690, and it looks like it has some holes I can tap on the bottom. Might be able to just use some wire ties to hold it in place. I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow.
Also need to figure out how to work around my dust shoe, since I take it off to change bits.

Quite a bit of work involved to get this up and running.

[RomanLini]

Restless1- Yes A and N is the same as L and N.

Al_The_Man- Everything you said is correct, but I would like to clarify a couple of points. The Super-PID uses optoisolators for the specific reason that the low voltage side is designed to be directly connected to a PC parallel port. So the voltages on the low voltage 4pin connector; (GND, TACH, RUN, +5v) are all referenced to the PC case ground or to the ground of your +5v supply (that may also be used on stepper drivers etc).

As far as the mains nuetral being grounded as well (usually in your house switchboard) that does not affect the SuperPID.

Ger21- 1) The "RUN" input is pulled high inside the SuperpID by a pull-up resistor, so it is naturally in RUN mode. If the RUN pin is shorted to ground (0v) it selects STOP mode. If the RUN pin is tied to +5v or left unconnected it defaults to RUN mode. This is done for 2 reasons; 1; so the SuperPID can run with no external control needed, 2; so all 3 control switches only need to be connected to ground to simplify wiring.

2) If you connect an analog 0v-5v input (like from Mach3) it goes to the centre pin of the pot connector marked "PO" and that pin of the pot must be disconnected. I'll update the instructions further for that mod when I have more info from Mach3 and from Gecko for G540 users.

3) Any +5v regulated source is ok that can supply about 100mA. The +5v from the hard drive connector is referenced to PC ground and is fine. It is not current limited like a USB +5v is, so you may want to put a 1 amp fuse at the PC end in case the wire gets chewed etc.

4) Yes the spindle sensor G terminal is the shield, L (red) is the LED power and O (white) is the output signal from the sensor. It's good practice to keep all 3 sensor wires isolated from ground or other metal objects etc.

5) Yes the initial sensor setup is best done with just a 5v supply connected. It's in the instructions. This lets you position and test the spindle sensor using the inbuild "Spindle View" bargraph.

Thanks for the observations! Initially I wanted to use soldered connections for the sensor to reduce the chance of noise and problems etc and to reduce costs but I will reconsider for the 2nd batch redesign.

You can splice into the sensor cable anywhere, but I'd leave the sensor itself alone as they are VERY tiny and fiddly to solder. I'll get back to you with the part number, but I'm pretty sure it's an Optek sensor you can source from Mouser or Digikey. I have spares I can personally supply in a pinch if you get stuck.

For mounting the sensor it's designed to go in a hole so any type of bracket with a hole should be ok. A spot of hot melt glue or silicone will hold it ok but still allow it to be broken out later if needed.

CarveOne- Good to hear you got it ok, and Gerry too. I look forward to seeing your box.

Customers can order longer sensor cable lengths too when they order, for an extra couple of dollars. As the sensor is the same diameter as the cable you may be able to just to thread the cable right through, assuming it is long enough.

[CarveOne]

Any idea on how you plan to mount the sensor? I was just looking at my PC 690, and it looks like it has some holes I can tap on the bottom. Might be able to just use some wire ties to hold it in place. I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow.
Also need to figure out how to work around my dust shoe, since I take it off to change bits.

Quite a bit of work involved to get this up and running.

Since I'll be changing between three routers for these tests, I'm thinking that I will just use a small spot of heatsink thermal compound on the sensor and attach it somewhere with high tack tape like Gorilla tape temporarily.

Not knowing what the actual size box is required to contain everything I haven't given it much thought at all. I was expecting to mount it somewhere on the non-moving part of my Z axis and cut the router cable so I can connectorize the router cable and can re-plug the router cable back together when the Super-PID is removed. These routers will never be used as regular hand routers again anyway. I have a 1HP Grizzly plunge router with non-round shape that I use for normal woodworking.

I intend to buy a PC 7815 router in the next month or two and will grimace when I cut that cord and connectorize it.

CarveOne

[ger21]

2) If you connect an analog 0v-5v input (like from Mach3) it goes to the centre pin of the pot connector marked "PO" and that pin of the pot must be disconnected. I'll update the instructions further for that mod when I have more info from Mach3 and from Gecko for G540 users.

I can't get 0-5V directly from mach3 without an additional board to generate it. Earlier in the thread you said we could use the PWM from Mach3. Yes, or no? If I need 0-5V, then I'll need to buy the Digispeed I linked to earlier.

I intend to buy a PC 7815 router in the next month or two and will grimace when I cut that cord and connectorize it

I opened up my 690 yesterday to see where to make the cut. I was going to just bypass the switch, but may leave it for added safety when changing bits.

[restless1]

Carveone I was thinking of a new router why the porter cable?
And I see on Amazon you can buy just the motor do I need just that then
On my cnc. Thanks and look forward to seeing how yours works out..

[ger21]

Usually, if you buy just the motor, it costs more.

[RomanLini]

Since I'll be changing between three routers for these tests, I'm thinking that I will just use a small spot of heatsink thermal compound on the sensor and attach it somewhere with high tack tape like Gorilla tape temporarily.
...

Am I missing something? You don't need thermal compound on an optical sensor. You need a small area of white paint on your spindle.


Ger21-

I can't get 0-5V directly from mach3 without an additional board to generate it. Earlier in the thread you said we could use the PWM from Mach3. Yes, or no? If I need 0-5V, then I'll need to buy the Digispeed I linked to earlier.

At this point the info I have is that the Mach3 PWM output from the parallel port is from TTL drivers in the PC, so it only goes from 0.8v to 2.4v or so. That means it won't give the full range of speed control (that needs 0v-5v). I'm still waiting to get more info re if Mach3 can be recalilbrated to work around this, or if I can comensate in firmware on the SuperPID, in the meantime there are a few options;
1. a cheap 5v buffer IC and some fiddly soldering
2. the Digispeed product (or others) that outputs 0v-5v
3. Gecko G540 outputs 0v-10v and 2 resistors and 1 capacitor

Sorry Gerry I didn't realise you wanted to get the Mach3 control wired up straight away, I am still waiting on more info to sort this out. Mariss from Gecko got back to me now and I've sorted the G540 side, which is compatible with the Super-PID it just needs 2 resistors and a capacitor.

As for direct Mach3 connection there is a firmware way I might be able to sort it or a hardware way (for Version2 Super-PID) but both require more info before I can really make the call and commit one way or the other.

[ger21]

Sorry Gerry I didn't realize you wanted to get the Mach3 control wired up straight away, I am still waiting on more info to sort this out.

No problem. I was just going to wire it up manually, but thought you wanted me to test the PWM. But since it won't work, I'll just let Mach3 turn it on and off and adjust the rpm manually. I'll try to test the tach input to Mach3 and see if it works. Since I'm doing wiring, I think I'll add some home switches and maybe a probe as well.

Do I need a pull up resistor as I'm going to wire directly from the parallel port to the SuperPID run terminal? Or just straight from the port to the SuperPID, as shown in the manual?

[CarveOne]

Carveone I was thinking of a new router why the porter cable?
And I see on Amazon you can buy just the motor do I need just that then
On my cnc. Thanks and look forward to seeing how yours works out..

The PC 7518 (I got the numbers wrong) is a 3-1/4Hp round metal frame router. If you only use it for a CNC machine (as I will) it makes no sense to pay more for the version that has the base. If you want the base, by all means get that version since it can be easily removed until needed. These are commonly used on the larger commercially made CNC machines. Anything above it is usually a Columbo or other make of spindle. I have seen them for a little under $300.

The PC 7518 has 1/2" and 1/4" capacity, and I believe an ER20 style collet system is available for it to use with smaller bits.

It has more current draw than I think the first revision of the Super-PID can handle, but Romanlini and Val have a solution for that.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

Am I missing something? You don't need thermal compound on an optical sensor. You need a small area of white paint on your spindle.

No, you're not missing anything. I did. I had thermal probe on my mind. (There are no guarantees about what gets stuck in there these days).


CarveOne

[ger21]

The PC 7518 (I got the numbers wrong) is a 3-1/4Hp round metal frame router. If you only use it for a CNC machine (as I will) it makes no sense to pay more for the version that has the base.

Again, it's usually cheaper with the base.

[CarveOne]

Again, it's usually cheaper with the base.

Two months ago when I was looking at the online prices I found sources that were lower priced without the base. Prices may have changed more recently. Price and the place I order it from will determine if I buy one with or without the base. I'm not hard wired to buy one without it, I just don't need it myself.

Woodcraft - with or without base prices

CarveOne

[Drools]

just for a quick note, white-out works well to make a mark on the spindle shaft. I use the white-out that comes on a tape dispenser.

[RomanLini]

Ger21- You can just connect direct from the parallel port pin to the SuperPID "RUN" input. And likewise for the "TACH" output to the parallel port.

CarveOne- The big Porter Cable router is specced at 15 amps, according their web page. The Super-PID power connector is specced at 20 amps and the PCB tracks etc at 15 amps. Ideally it should work ok but for initial product launch we wanted to spec the Super-PID at 10 amps or so to allow a decent safety margin. I've made a slightly modified SuperPID for your second unit and for another test person who has a Porter Cable router as well. Based on both of your feedback we can then either spec the SuperPID for 15 amps or make some minor mods to the next redesign, either way the SuperPID will soon be specced for the big routers too.

Drools- Re the white out for white paint, it's good matte white and it's easy to use, quick drying etc. But it is a little fragile on the metal collet, I've had to refresh my white out paint once after some rough scrubbing with a cleaning brush scratched it a bit. The ideal paint is probably a matte white enamel, I will try to find a model aeroplane paint next time I am in town.

Sensor update.
I have been doing some tests for a possible new sensor type using a magnetic sensor. The optical sensor has the advantage of being cheap and safe, as nothing is mounted to the rotating spindle (to be thrown off at high velocity!).

But, in anticipation that someone may need to cut in a very dirty environment or be cutting something like Carbon Fibre that may put a fine dust on the sensor I have been testing a plastic Delrin ring design to hold a tiny magnet and work with a magnetic sensor.

It will be a week or two in testing but I expect to have something that could be offered as an add-on to the SuperPID for a small extra cost.