Super-PID new low-cost router speed controller

[RomanLini]

SatanKlaws- The speed control can be done through Mach3 but with some minor issues, please read post #202.

I know about as much re the black anodised knob as you do. I guess if Val has stocks it would be similar price to the other knobs, or maybe a fraction more. It's very late at night now, but I can get some info from Val later tomorrow or monday. For pricing and accessories you are always best to email Val, and please remember he may not work all weekend like I do.

I think the LCD supplied at this point is the blue on black, it's a beautiful LCD and my personal preference, at least until I see a yellow on black.

The next version Super-PID with built in ability to accept PWM input won't be manufactured until the first batch sells, I would guess some months away yet. If you are using the G540 (you said) then you just need a couple of resistors and caps etc, and you can order Super-PID firmware with speed range of 0-30000. It will be a small bit of work to connect for speed control but not that much more than any install really.

Al_the_man- The best way to turn the router on/off is controlled with the Super-PID as this provides the soft start. A relay or switch after the Super-PID can turn the router off but is best for safety use only; like tool changes or emergency stops.

Khalid- Glad you like the quiet operation (and the red LCD). For that beautiful wood engraving you do you can probably run low RPM like 9000 or 10000 for quietness, it is only a fine cut with a ball nose bit.

I'll do the diagram for Mach3 speed control sometime tomorrow.

Oeffner- Thanks for the order.

SatanKlaws- Yes you can turn the Super-PID on/off using the +5v "RUN" terminal from Mach3. Then there is some modding to add a couple of resistors etc if you want Mach3 speed control (and please order 0-30000 RPM firmware)

I need information from someone here please; How does Mach3 accept info from a pot? I thought you set RPM in gcode or on the screen using the PC keyboard?

Ger21- Excellent you are up and running! I'll check your video in a few minutes. It's funny hey once your router is so quiet you can hear your bearings rattling! Mine is the same, at 5000 RPM all I can hear is bearings and brushes (and cutting tool!).

Have fun with the real cutting tomorrow, and please keep an eye on temperatures there since you have that airtight acrylic box. Do you have a point and shoot IR thermometer?

Khalid- Re MAch3 speed control I don't use Mach3 so I don't know how the speed control works. One thing that I can say is that is is great being able to make tiny "tweak" adjustments to the RPM when cutting, it helps so much especially when you get a small resonance between feedrate and tool flute RPM, with the SuperPID you can just tweak it a couple % RPM and it sounds so much better. Personally I really like the speed knob and don't think I would ever use PC speed control, but that's me. Maybe someone can explain why Mach3 control is so beneficial?

Ger21- That router bearing/brush noise is probably normal, you just never heard it before because the router screamed at high RPM. I think you will like the 5000 RPM drilling, I do!

Thoug- Great to hear you got your SuperPID ok. The Super-PID "RUN" input has a 22k pullup resistor, which normally holds in in "RUN" mode. So for your special needs you can use a 470ohm pull down resistor from the "RUN" terminal to ground, to hold it normally in "STOP" mode.

Then to make it RUN your relay contact would connect +5v (regulated) to the "RUN" input. Please let me know if you need any support for your install.

(edit) Great video Ger21! I can see you're having fun with that speed control! Also too I think that bearing noise seems a little much, but I don't know your router and its metal frame might make the bearings just *sound* noisy.

[thoug]

Thanks Romanlini for your prompt late night response!

I'm glad the Super-PID pull up on "RUN" is weak enough that it can be pulled down with the 470 ohm, that's what I was hoping for. Yes, I was planning to use the relay to switch the +5 supply to "RUN" when active. Thanks much for your support offer! I'm also an Electrical Engineer, so answering these questions is just the kind of support I need.

I hope to have it running before the end of the day!

Todd

[ger21]

I need information from someone here please; How does Mach3 accept info from a pot? I thought you set RPM in gcode or on the screen using the PC keyboard?

Mach3 has a spindle speed override function on the screen. You can get a board with analog inputs (Pokeys is one) to connect the pot too, and then you can assign the pot to the spindle override function of Mach3.

[revwarguy]

All right! After a not-so-great week otherwise, my SuperPID arrived today, exactly 2.0 weeks from the day I ordered it! Next week is definitely looking up as well as hooking up!

[ger21]

I've got Mach3 turning on the spindle through the Super-PID. Pretty sweet setup. I no longer have to climb on top of the machine to plug in the router. Unfortunately, you can't read the display again. It says "Starting Motor" when starting and "Stop Mode" when stopping.

I hadn't realized that the connector for the unused pins on my 3 axis Xylotex was already being used by the additional single axis board. But I was able to add 2 pins to the connector. One for on/off, and one for future use as rpm control.


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlZW5sWJ9bM"]YouTube - Super-PID Test 3.avi[/nomedia]

[Al_The_Man]

Al_the_man- The best way to turn the router on/off is controlled with the Super-PID as this provides the soft start. A relay or switch after the Super-PID can turn the router off but is best for safety use only; like tool changes or emergency stops.

What I ended up doing is to supply the coil of a 3 phase contactor that has a N.C. auxilliary contact, the coil is switched by the M3 on the controller but is ANDed with a contact in the E-stop string, for safety when changing cutters etc.
The contactor switches router live and Neutral on two contacts between PID and Motor.
The N.C. aux is across the Start input.
This way the power-present is satisfied, safety is observed, and soft start occurs.
I use the other contact for Vacuum.
Al.

[CarveOne]

It looks like the sensor won't work at the motor shaft due to a short shaft with a hex nut at the only place available to mount the sensor.

Removing four screws will allow removing the top cover. They come out easily enough but are very snug. The On/Off switch and the circuit board is very compactly tucked into recesses but needle nose pliers will easily remove the board with attached heatsink. The switch can be removed with your fingers. The red circle encircles the three legs of the triac. The legs are in line with each other. The lower solder bump is a wire that attaches from the far side of the board.

The sensor can be mounted through vent slots in the plastic cover but it will need to be mounted in a plastic tube that glues into a hole that is drilled into the slot in the cover similar to Khalid's modification. The tube passes by bare metal parts that have 120VAC on them while running. The shaft will need to be painted black, then the white added afterward. The bearing assembly can be removed if necessary.

CarveOne

[RedskinsJBS]

Can the sensor not be mounted aimed at the top of the shaft? That still rotates...

The field of view may be too small, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

Jay

[ger21]

Did some drilling.

1/8" bit in Baltic Birch, 1/2" deep. 1/8" pecks, at 5000 rpm.
The router momentarily slows down 100-250 rpm, but it's probably much less than with a standard speed control.
Now I need to do some abusive tests.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6FXbOPEzBM"]YouTube - Super-PID Test Drill.avi[/nomedia]

[lancut]

Ger21, that sounded sweet, The idea of showing the speed display helped visualize the minimal (all relative)drop in rpm. I wonder how it will handle the routing part, 1/2 bit buried .25 at 45inch/min feedrate. I ordered mine yesterday, in the mine time started working on the enclosure, the shaft is already painted. Looking forward to more pictures and videos.

[ger21]

Managed to do a little routing. The Super-PID maintains the rpm very well.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVl76J0m81w"]YouTube - Super-PID Test Routing[/nomedia]

[CarveOne]

Can the sensor not be mounted aimed at the top of the shaft? That still rotates...

The field of view may be too small, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

Jay

Yes. The sensor will be aimed at the shaft just under the top bearing assembly similar to what Khalid did. There may need to be some kind of a nonmetallic support added to the sensor tube near the shaft that doesn't let the sensor move, yet doesn't interfere with the coil spring for the brushes. I'll try to get a better shot of that little area tomorrow. Khalid had the advantage of two plastic walls to support the tube. I only have one wall available.

CarveOne

[RedskinsJBS]

CarveOne,

I was more thinking pointing down at the actual top of the shaft. You know, the part that looks like a circle. I actually just my Super-PID today and I think that the sensor is small enough that this could work...

I am really interested in what you do because I will be using a PC7518 on my router as well.

But I will let the experts chime in to tell me how wrong my logic may be.

[ger21]

Did you see how I mounted mine? Epoxy a brass tube, and I used silicone to hold the sensor in place, even though it was a snug fit in the tube.

[lancut]

Awesome job! Judging by the sound of the router it looks like held its rpm pretty good . I'm certainly impressed. Ger21, thanks for sharing.

[CarveOne]

Did you see how I mounted mine? Epoxy a brass tube, and I used silicone to hold the sensor in place, even though it was a snug fit in the tube.

I may use a brass tube also, but it needs heat shrink tubing over it. It will be right next to a bare 120vac potential brass brush holder assembly. I have more K&S round and square brass tube laying around than stiff plastic tube anyway.

CarveOne

[Jay C]

Thanks, Gerry for the drawing of the board. The advantage of a clear cover is you don't have to place a cut-out for the SuperPID's screen.

I've attached a screen shot of a box design I'm going to try make out of .5 baltic birch plywood for the top, bottom, and sides, and 1/8 inch lexan I found lying around the garage.

The lexan parts (blue) on the top and bottom are vent windows. The top is cut through in the middle, and the bottom will be pocketed .25. This gives a depth of 1.25 for the inside of the box. The lexan cover is the same size as the top will be just screwed on. If I need more depth, I can just cut more sides of whatever thickness material I need and glue them up. It looks like one set of sides will give a total depth of 1.25 inches, so even though two sets are drawn, one should be enough.

This is all done just using profiles and pocket operations, and assumes a .125 bit.

revwarguy, do you mind posting your dxf's up for me to use? My Super PID arrived today and I really like the look you your enclosure

-Jay

[CarveOne]

CarveOne,

I was more thinking pointing down at the actual top of the shaft. You know, the part that looks like a circle. I actually just my Super-PID today and I think that the sensor is small enough that this could work...

I am really interested in what you do because I will be using a PC7518 on my router as well.

But I will let the experts chime in to tell me how wrong my logic may be.

That may work. I don't know if Roman has tried that. 1/2 the shaft needs to be flat black, the other half flat white. As long as it has a clearly defined edge the sensor should work with it. It will be easier to mount that way and should be easy to test.

CarveOne

[RedskinsJBS]

Well I wonder if the sensor is actually keeping track of the time that it takes to go from black to white to black ( with this method each shade would have to be about equal); or is the sensor simply looking for a state change (ie, is it simply looking for a voltage climb or drop...).

If the latter is the case, then one might be able to get away with painting one of the 4 quadrants white and the other 3 black on top of the shaft. This white quadrant would cause the switch that the Super-PID is looking for and hopefully it wouldn't require such a complex system to mount the sensor.

I'll let Roman chime in before I get my brain going on this. I don't want to waste all of those thought cycles on an idea that could be pointless! I already do that enough in school.

Jay

[Khalid]

RedskinsJBS: Very good idea of mounting the sensor at Router top at upright condition... Just make the Half top circle white and the rest black... and it will definitely work...

Jay: The sensor reads One RPM when it pass through the one white edge and start from the beginning of the white edge again...Quadrant of circle also should keep tracking the RPM but at higher speed the sensor response time would be much less and sensor skip some RPM(my opinion)...so Roman suggested us to make half white(just guess and paint it almost half not necessary aeronautic precision 100% exactly half) so that sensor get more time to get the steady reading of the shaft...