My Newest Desktop machine

[TheRobberDotCom]

Hi John,

It was me who was interested in a machine - but unfortunately I'm still having a hard time convincing my Dad it's an awesome idea
I had an idea re-reading your post about the lettering for the A4 machine: Would it work to put on whatever primer there is, colour the letter cutouts (not worrying about going 'outside the lines'), then once that's dry, put on the main colour with a roller?

-Adrian

[microcarve]

Hi John,

It was me who was interested in a machine - but unfortunately I'm still having a hard time convincing my Dad it's an awesome idea
I had an idea re-reading your post about the lettering for the A4 machine: Would it work to put on whatever primer there is, colour the letter cutouts (not worrying about going 'outside the lines'), then once that's dry, put on the main colour with a roller?

-Adrian

Painting like that sounds like it'd work, but I haven't had any luck at
all the few times I've tried it myself....

Can't convince Dad! That's strange. It seems to me the things you'd learn...
such as mechanics, electronics, software, computers, basic small scale
manufacturing skills, among many others, would be a Very Good thing
for the future.

Everything has to be manufactured in some way and robotics certainly has
about as high and endless potential as any thing I can think of.

Today, everybody has a drill and saw and maybe a few other special
cutting tools in their tool box, but it won't be long before everybody
also has, at least, a small cnc routing machine as well. There's no
other single tool that can get anywhere close to what a cnc machine can
do. And for what it does, it's really now about as affordable as one can
get. I know I sell mine off a little more than cost....and if time is
accounted for, I basically give them away. But I like making them, so
I'm fine with that....

I'll have to consider some way to have them produced in places where
it's too expensive to ship them. In Some places, it costs as much to
ship it to someone as I sell it for.

Maybe some sort of licensing and training to make them. That could
work with a little figuring.....they're not hard to make, but it'd take
some special tools. But even those aren't a huge investment.....just
a lathe and small mill.

Well, I can't think of many better things for someone to be interested
in. Any field that involves automation and robotics has a definitely
brighter future than a lot of things someone could be doing...


John

[gmfoster]

Well, I can't think of many better things for someone to be interested
in. Any field that involves automation and robotics has a definitely
brighter future than a lot of things someone could be doing...


John

That is so true, need to be like apple and give one to every school and then you could sell them to schools for the next 40 years. In this case you might actually be better than the competition. I have to believe that someday we will figure out that we actually have to make something instead of just managing it!..

We hear all the talk about Hi Tech ect but there is nothing much more hi tech than actually using a computer to actually produce hard goods...

This or a three d printer seems the perfect gift for a talented youngster with imagination. Actually this would drive a thermal print head very well I suspect..

Garry

[.xXACEXx.]

as to the shipping costing as much as the machine, funny story.....
i was going to get a granite surface plate to use at work a few weeks ago, they were on sale , i asked "what was shipping going to cost." it was 110% of the cost of the surface plate!! so as you might have guessed ..i dont have a granite surface plate lol

hmmm.... thermal print head...
theres you an idea microcarve..build one of those to go on your machines (when you get bored that is) when you get some free time, which ever comes first

[TheRobberDotCom]

Hehe to be honest that was actually my plan all along - a hybrid RepRap/CNC router :rainfro:

[microcarve]

I'm pretty sure some of those 3D plastic printing type parts would work
great....but haven't had time to try it myself. The machine is smooth and
stable and I can't imagine any reason it shouldn't do it very well....


John

[microcarve]

Using something like one of those extruder head assemblies,
a Z axis could be extended a good bit, and the sides could be
easily made deeper for making taller parts.

I wish I had time to play around with it....it should work very
well.


John

[Ron Dunn]

Is Microcarve-John the same person as V90-John?

[microcarve]

Is Microcarve-John the same person as V90-John?

Yep. Probotix now owns the V90. It got to be pretty popular, pretty
quickly and I wasn't able to keep up orders, so the sensible thing
was to shift production to a place capable of handling it.

They've done very well with it...


John

[Ron Dunn]

I've just bought a V90, which is currently somewhere between USA and Australia. Looks like you're going to repeat that success all over again!

Good to see.

Ron.

[microcarve]

Thanks Ron!



The V90 is a great machine and you'll be pleased with what it can do.
I guess you've looked at all the cool and amazing things people have
done with it in the Yahoo group photos....there's stuff there I wouldn't
have thought possible.

I've long had a personal preference for the smaller fixed bridge designs,
as most of the work I used to do...when I had time....involved getting
as tiny and precise detail as was possible. So I'm making these new
ones now and I like them Very much.

I've come to think of cnc machines as "specialty" machines. There doesn't
seem to be one that "does-it-all".....super fine detail and big cutting area.
At least in the lower cost price ranges....

So, I'm back to where I began, trying to make smaller ones that can do
as fine of work as possible.

Here's a video that shows the very first V90 prototype....

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CgLbmofuU"]YouTube - 210 IPM Halo[/nomedia]


That's turned out to be a great machine....

John

[microcarve]

Another A4 painted and almost ready to sell off. Then I'll make another...
and another....and....


John

[Shawzam]

John,

These machines look amazing! And after reading through the posts, I am impressed by your care and effort on the engineering of it. And letting out your "secrets"' is so different than most out there. Thank you!

I've been considering copying as much of your design I could manage with only woodworking tools (with permission of course) as my first attempt at building a CNC machine of my own... but am now tempted to just purchase one your your machines to get my feet wet and not be frustrated by all the snags that could come up in construction.

Could you send me a PM with price (painted and unpainted) and availability for an A4 machine? Need to know how much I have to bargain with SWMBO!

[microcarve]

John,

These machines look amazing! And after reading through the posts, I am impressed by your care and effort on the engineering of it. And letting out your "secrets"' is so different than most out there. Thank you!

I've been considering copying as much of your design I could manage with only woodworking tools (with permission of course) as my first attempt at building a CNC machine of my own... but am now tempted to just purchase one your your machines to get my feet wet and not be frustrated by all the snags that could come up in construction.

Could you send me a PM with price (painted and unpainted) and availability for an A4 machine? Need to know how much I have to bargain with SWMBO!

Thanks Very Much!



I've got a few extra parts stocked up, so I can offer a pretty good price
on a few of them right now. I can sell them unpainted for $399 or
painted for $479.

I keep making the smallest of design changes to make reproducing
some of these PITA-to-make parts a little easier and more reliable,
which also means the machines are getting unbelievably easy to
assemble. This white one has been re-assembled 5-6 times and
so far, it's by far the easiest of them all. Practically no adjusting
has been needed.

BTW....the A4 name for this particular machine comes from the
attempt to get the X/Y cutting area the same basic size as a piece
of standard printing paper. Easy to judge how much room someone has
by just using the paper for reference....

It doesn't have to even have a flat surface to sit on. It's really rigid
and strong with all the extra metal elements that are being worked in.
I got in some 8020 extrusions that were going to be used for these
A4 machines, but it adds nothing to the frame. Not a single actual
improvement. It could be used, but it adds another $80 just in material
costs for...Honestly...Zero gain. Looks cool, but doesn't make an
already exceptionally strong frame any better.

Anyone can always write me at....

john at microcarve dot com

I have the PM thing turned off. It was driving me nuts with warnings
of being too full every day. Email works better for me....


John

[TheRobberDotCom]

Any idea how much shipping might be to New Zealand? Maybe I can convince Dad to pay for shipping and electronics, and I'll pay for the painting and the machine itself...

[microcarve]

Any idea how much shipping might be to New Zealand? Maybe I can convince Dad to pay for shipping and electronics, and I'll pay for the painting and the machine itself...

Well, the news isn't great....but it's not as bad as I'd have thought.

I ship via USPS...due to where we live, and a few other reasons.

The chart looks a little different today, but it's saying between $200
and $235. But...that's a rough estimate. I could...maybe....do something
to lighten it a little. But I don't know how much it can be lightened.
Or if it'd make any real difference. Knocking off 2-3 lbs normally doesn't
seem to do much.

Not good, but not too bad. New Zealand is a long way from here...


John

[EllArr]

John,

This design looks perfect for PCB milling which is my (current) primary interest in CNC.

I've been considering the purchase of a Fireball v90. However, I love the stability you've designed into the A4. Since you were the primary designer of the original Fireball, I would like to get your comparison on the two machines for my needs.

I'll start by saying that this will be my first CNC machine. I will have very no direct access to anyone that has CNC experience, but I am a very technical person and have access to a couple of electrical engineer friends as well as the wonderful forums here

I'm leaning towards the Fireball simply because this is my first CNC machine (proven "mass produced" design/support) and I also think the extra space would be nice if I ever decide to do things beside PCB milling. However, (probably because I'm so new to CNC) I wonder if the stability of the A4 design would make a big difference in what I'm doing.

The most demanding project I could think of doing would be based on a Microchip mTouch Inductive Touch panel. It has an induction coil printed directly on the surface of the PCB in copper with an aluminum faceplate sitting on top.

The coil is a trace of copper on the surface of the PCB 8 mil wide with 8 mil of space between subsequent copper traces. The total coil is approximately 1" in diameter. I can send a PDF or eagle if it helps. The coil was created with the print-inductor.ulp on the eagle download page.

The faceplate is going to be a 6061 aluminum plate that is 250 mil thick. It will need to be cut to size and the area where the buttons are located will be milled down to 180 mil thickness.

Do you think that the Fireball is adequate?
Besides the price, size and community support differences are there other things I should be considering?

Thanks,
Paul

[microcarve]

Hi Paul,

Give me a minute to get you a decent answer....

[microcarve]

Paul,

I actually started out trying to make a "PCB machine for the guys
at the Homebrew PCB yahoo group. So I began with small fixed bridge
machines that attempted that...

I don't make circuit boards myself, so it was a little bit of a problem
at first....as I had no examples. But we stuck it out and all learned
and I had Great support from those guys. That first handful are the guys
who made Fireballcnc happen....

Making circuit boards is an art unto itself. It takes some serious trial
& error, but it's very do-able. The machine can handle the positioning
and it's nice and stable. It's intended to try to be as good as possible for
someone who wants to mill pcb's.

And though I don't promote it as such...as I still have no experience
or examples...I believe it to be as fine of a small machine as is
possible....in it's price range....for such work.

But, it'll take a fair bit of practice. I consider milling those super fine
trace boards to be maybe one of the hardest things to do with any
affordable cnc machine, so I aim for that goal.

You'll see some of my little ultra-fine lithophanes earlier in this thread.
The stepover is only .004 or so in many of them....and...it really is....
But that plastic is a breeze to mill compared to the laminate that
PCB material is. It does show the machine doing the necessary positioning
though.

There are examples of work done on my earlier machines here....


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhdqBrciQZU"]YouTube - Milling a fine trace double sided pcb[/nomedia]



That was done by Phil Moore at Pminmo.com...who most people here
know well from his work. He's The Man as far as I'm concerned at
doing that sort of work with an inexpensive machine...and he has
a forum that's geared toward PCB milling.


MillPCBS.com


All that said, the V90 was intended to be more of a "general purpose"
machine. People started wanting something bigger than what I was
making, and I never would promise the super fine work from any
moving gantry machine. But, I have seen excellent work done on the
V90.

IMHO....the best machine that will do the absolute finest work....that's
realistically possible....at milling fine trace boards will be the fixed bridge
design like I'm making now. It's not intended to be the most popular
design.....and won't be due to it's limited cutting area, but it's small
size and excellent rigidity are the best bets for as fine of work as I
can make it do.

Like I just recently mentioned, I'm looking more and more at these sorts
of machines as "specialty machines". Like a saw blade for example....
any of them will cut something, but there's a "'right one" for the right
job....

Well, I hope that makes sense. I don't do PCB's myself, but by now, it's
more of a problem of having time. I Know I could show some impressive stuff.
If I only had the time....


John

[leaveme]

I'm in love of this small machine.

I wish I had one of this...