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  1. #81
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    Mike wow thats some info, you rock. What if, I'm not a machinist by trade I just dabble, but I can use the lathe, just not that good. I just cut the casting with all the stuff left inside that I need and carry on from there? Also, I think the cog belt is the best for running the motor. What about the speed control on the mini mill. Will it be used, I would like to use as much of my mill as possible to reduce the costs of conversion. I know alot of questions. I am hoping that you don't mind assisting me in my endevor to convert to spindle instead of a noisy router. Thanks for Mike!!!!



  2. #82
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by JFettig
    Mike, What machine is this spindle going on? I will suggest you not use v-belts to drive this but something along the lines of GT2 timing belts. I am currently using GT2 timing belts for 3000rpm and its not really loud, it keeps cool and seems to do a good job. Just make sure to have at least one of them with a flange so the belt doesnt ride up or down.

    Jon
    Thanks for tuning in Jon, as allways, you have allready been there and done that. You are one talented dude!

    This spindle is going on my mini gantry mill to replace the DC Servo spindle on that machine as it does not provide as much power as I want and the bearings are not up to the task of radial and axial thrust.

    Could you post a picture of your GT2 setup? I am thinking along the same lines. A sprocket timing belt would have less power loss.

    Everyone: I must point out that Jon's (JFettig) work on the larger motor conversion is the basis for the motor setup I will use to run this spindle.

    Thanks Jon

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-mikes-mini-gantry-mill-1-jpg  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #83
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    Here are a couple pictures,
    What kind of motor and what RPM range for cutting what material are you looking for?

    Jon

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-gt2-1-jpg   Spindle Idea-gt2-2-jpg  


  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPEEDRE
    Mike wow thats some info, you rock. What if, I'm not a machinist by trade I just dabble, but I can use the lathe, just not that good. I just cut the casting with all the stuff left inside that I need and carry on from there? Also, I think the cog belt is the best for running the motor. What about the speed control on the mini mill. Will it be used, I would like to use as much of my mill as possible to reduce the costs of conversion. I know alot of questions. I am hoping that you don't mind assisting me in my endevor to convert to spindle instead of a noisy router. Thanks for Mike!!!! :cheers: :cheers:
    Speedre,

    I am not a machinist, I just dabble as well. You can do this just a well as I can. I am happy to help you to the limits of my experience and in helping you, we help others just as Jon is helping me. Ask questions!

    I will use a timing belt to drive the spindle with a 1.5 Hp DC treadmill motor and a KB Electronics DC motor speed controller in my mill.
    You can use the existing motor and motor controller from your mini mill with reduced capability (power).

    I chose to make my spindle box square, you may desire a different configuration. I would remove all the parts from the housing before I started working on it. Do you have access to a mill? If you don't, get someone in your area to help you get the cut section of the housing trued up. Most machinists are a friendly bunch and are glad to help. A local college or high school machine shop instructor will usually be glad to help as well.

    Have Fun!

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  5. #85
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    Thanks for the pictures Jon, your mill is looking better all the time.

    A 5100 rpm treadmill motor with 1:1 belt drive. I will put my motor off to the side of the housing. 4000 rpm is all I need for 7000 and 6000 series aluminum, 90% of the time I will be running 2,000 rpm or less. The motor was selected due to the physical size, horsepower and rpm rating. It is 3.3 inches in diameter and will fit my spindle profile adequately.

    How wide is the belt Jon?

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #86
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    I have the 15mm wide belts, I wanted wider but thats as big as they make them, these belts have been put under some power and seem to do well. If you want do do some higher power lower rpm roughing, I would suggest doing a lower geared belt drive. I considered adding the capability of changing pullies for different speeds but decided not to afterall.

    If your just doing small work, higher speeds is great, I did a lot of work at 7500rpm 1.25:1 pully ratio and it worked quite well, couldnt hog too deep or drill too fast with big pecks, but otherwize it worked pretty well.

    Jon



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    OK question time. Will the variable speed contol that came in the mill work? How about using the stock motor with a 2:1 sprocket configuration? How about two flanged sprockets?



  8. #88
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    the variable speed controller that came with the mill will cut out because of current overload really quick. and 1:2 will work pretty decently on the stock motor(3000rpm max) but it may not have much torque for doing some stuff.

    Jon



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    This is about Automatic Tool Changers used in R8 spindles. What is this particular part called (fingers)? It is the "fingers" or claws that grab the retention knob and is attached to the end of the draw bar. I am trying to find a manufacturer or distributor (e.g. mcmaster.com, mscdirect.com, etc) that sells this part. What is the official name of this part and where can I buy one?

    Thanks,



  10. #90
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    Default R8 Mini Mill Spindle Idea

    I ordered the Timing Belt Pulleys and belleville washers from McMaster-Carr. It took me a long time to decide which belt size and pulley type. 1/2" L series belt and steel pulleys. It will be interesting to see if this comes together as I envision it to.

    I made a dovetail spindle mount plate for the R8 spindle today and fit it to the mini gantry mill. This is a really strong mounting system to alow the exchange of different spindles on the Z axis. I will create another album in my gallery for this as it is one of the most popular pictures viewed. http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=9017

    I fear the spindle and motor will be too heavy for this little mill.

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-timing-belt-pulley-jpg   Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0003_2_1_1-jpg   Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0005_4_1_1-jpg   Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0006_5_1_1-jpg  

    Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0011_10_1_1-jpg   Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0008_7_1_1-jpg   Spindle Idea-dovetail-spindle-mount0009_8_1_1-jpg  
    Last edited by MikeAber; 07-15-2005 at 01:03 PM.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFettig
    the variable speed controller that came with the mill will cut out because of current overload really quick. and 1:2 will work pretty decently on the stock motor(3000rpm max) but it may not have much torque for doing some stuff.

    Jon
    What do you mean by current overload. Will that only happen if I use Mach 2 to manage the motor? If I use it manualy without computer control how could that occur? I understand little of electrical things. Explaine



  12. #92
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    Speedre,
    Your motor is rated at .47 horsepower. If you go to 2:1 motor:spindle turns ratio belt drive the maximum spindlle speed will be 3,000 rpm with twice the motor torque. If you use 1:2 motor:spindle turns ratio you would try to get 12,000 rpm with 1/2 the motor torque and burn out the stock bearings. Higher rpm causes more friction losses so you really get maybe 1/3 or 1/4 the power at the spindle. It probably takes .25 to .35 horsepower just to turn the spindle at 6,000 rpm.

    If you use your current motor and motor controller, it will be much easier to overload the the motor and controller at higher rpm. When the motor controller sees an overload condition it will kill the power to the motor to protect it. This will require that you turn the speed control off to reset the circuitry then back on.

    This has nothing to do with Mach2 or any computer controls.

    Jon has a lot of experience with this, he knows what will happen. For the use you have explaned - plastics - and - light - soft metal work you may be ok with the power. I predict you will not be happy with the power level at high speeds. You will just have a 4 banger instead of a V8, me - I want the V10.

    Don't worry about it until you see what happens.

    Mike

    Last edited by MikeAber; 07-06-2005 at 03:54 AM. Reason: wrong values
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #93
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    Mike, the stock mini mill motor is 6000rpm, so your values would be doubled. and the first number in your ratio would be the motor pully so what you have is backwards.

    The surplus treadmill motor draws up to 18 amps while the stock mini mill motor draws 4.5 and thats a huge difference, just starting the big motor would probably overload it.

    Jon



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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by JFettig
    Mike, the stock mini mill motor is 6000rpm, so your values would be doubled. and the first number in your ratio would be the motor pully so what you have is backwards.

    The surplus treadmill motor draws up to 18 amps while the stock mini mill motor draws 4.5 and thats a huge difference, just starting the big motor would probably overload it.

    Jon
    OOPS!

    I don't have a mini mill motor and was using your 3000 rpm value. The motor I got is a 14 amp motor and I tested it on my motor controller - runs great -. The original motor might be fine at 3000 rpm spindle speed for Speedre's needs.

    Thanks,

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    So what would be a good motor to use?. I tried Grainger's but the site was having technical probs. I'd like to spend around $100.00 is that possible?. Remember I don't have brains for this. Oh if the motor pulley is bigger than the ratio is 2:1 correct . So for one rev of the motor the spindle goes twice



  16. #96
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    You are right Speedre.

    Ask Jon, I am going to use 1:1 with a 1.5 horsepower 5,100 rpm motor I got from SurplusCenter.com for $40.00 including shipping. Jon is using a 2.5 horsepower motor. Look at his photo gallery to see what he has done with the motor on his mill. There are also pictures of his mill a few posts back.

    You said you were interested in using what you have to save costs. Use what you have then. If it were me I would use 2:1, 1.5:1 or 1:1 motor:spindle ratios with the lower horse power motor for a max speed of 3,000, 4,000 or 6,000 rpm and lean toward the 2:1 ratio (the motor pulley is half the size of the spindle pulley) for 3,000 rpm top speed.

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-motor-jpg  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #97
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    Default R8 Mini-Mill Spindle Idea

    While I am waiting for some gear oil and a new oil level sight glass for my Industrial Hobbies Mill (it decided to self distruct and dump almost a gallon of oil on the table overnight) let's talk about the motor and motor controller I will use for this new spindle.

    DC Motor controllers take AC power and make the DC voltage supplied to your motor. No extra power supply is needed for the motor.

    The DC Motor Controller: KB Electronics KBIC125 will handle up to a 16 amp 1.5 horsepower 90-130 VDC Motor with the optional heatsink attached. This is a module that requires installation into an enclosure, wiring to fuses, speed control pot (supplied) and a power switch. This is no problem for me as I have been in electronics for 30+ years. These are on ebay all the time for $40-45.00 that is where I got mine. Make sure you get the 1 horsepower resistor for your module.

    Another model available from KB Electronics that is pretty much completely assembled is the KBMD240. All you need to install is the AC power cord, wires to your motor and plug the horsepower resistor and fuse into sockets. Surpluscenter.com stocks these and the power resistor, fuse and heatsink you will need as well. The controller is 145.00, heatsink 35.00, fuse and power resistor are 3.00 each.
    Here are the links to those items:
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...em=11-2102-F46
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...em=11-2102-R43
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...item=11-2102-H

    The motor I will use is a 110 VDC 1.5 horsepower 5100 rpm treadmill motor. There is also a 1.25 Horsepower version of the same motor I ordered just in case I like it better. I selected these motors over others due to the size of the motor. These are 3" diameter motors and will fit the profile of my design best. Surplus Center also has 2.5 horsepower treadmill motors with 4" diameter housings for $20 each ---bargan time--- (at that price how can you loose) I have seen these on ebay for $40-$50.
    Links to those are here:
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric
    http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.as...tname=electric

    With the motor controller and DC motor I will have a 0 - 5100 rpm spindle at 1 horsepower or more. Plenty of power to get into trouble with.

    MikeAber

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-kbic125-jpg   Spindle Idea-kbmd240d-jpg   Spindle Idea-kbic-heat-sink-jpg   Spindle Idea-1hp-fuse-jpg  

    Spindle Idea-1hp-resistor-jpg   Spindle Idea-1-5-hp-motor-jpg  
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  18. #98
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    OK I'm a bit confused. Why dc and not ac? Do I need a controller, mighty expensive what? Causes me to think the mill parts will be just fine. Instead of variable speed coul'nt I use stepprd sprockets?



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPEEDRE
    OK I'm a bit confused. Why dc and not ac? Do I need a controller, mighty expensive what? Causes me to think the mill parts will be just fine. Instead of variable speed coul'nt I use stepprd sprockets?
    Hi Speedre,
    The information is for everyone.
    In your case you have a perfectly good motor and motor controller allready. Go ahead and use them.
    DC motors controlled by a DC Motor Controller have continuously variable speed control and DC motor torque is strong thru the control range. DC motors usually have more power in a smaller package. We coulld use an AC motor and an AC Motor Controller called a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) just as well except those motors are typically larger and the VFD's are more expensive. You can use step pullies and a single speed motor if you want to, I want variable speed.
    Your existing motor and controller have all of the same attributes as the parts listed in my last post except for one attribute -horsepower -. The parts I am going to use have 3 x the power of the mini mill motor and controller. Remember, I like the power!

    Hang in there Speedre we are not done yet.

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Thanks Mike, I will use my parts. I just needed reassurance I was doing the right stuff. HP now is not a primary requirement as the materials are thin, max .250 in the extreme. But as a side what are good pullet dia. and offset foe belt length. Can I just pick randomly, or is there a rule of thumb here? Also here's an updated dwg of my future spindle for E style collets.

    Attached Files Attached Files


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